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Old 03-11-2008, 09:06 PM
Andrew86 Andrew86 is offline
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Default Gay character in ST XI?

Is there going to be a gay character in Star Trek XI? For me, the biggest problem in every star trek incarnation so far has been the complete lack of gay characters. The producers have gone out of their way to make it clear that every main character we have had so for has been heterosexual.

For the franchise that started off so well, with the first interracial kiss, a black woman on the bridge, and so many stories focussed on human rights and equality, it's a real disappointment that it hasn't moved with the times and introduced a gay character.

I'm not saying there should be a major gay focus. No issue needs to (or even should) be made of homosexuality - a character should just so happen to have a same sex partner or love interest.

As times have changed over the last decades, the absence of gay characters has become more and more conspicuous. To leave them out again would be even more conspicuous today, and I think it would have many people asking questions.

Star Trek has always been a franchise that dealt with today's issues in a future context. And it needs to continue along that vein and reclaim the position it once had.

And let's face it, with the recent success of movies with gay content, the producers have nothing to lose and plenty to gain.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:15 PM
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They could lose me.
I am not a supporter of the Gay life style nor advertising it. It's not necessary at all.
I really don't think it's conspicous to leave them out but it really is to add them.

I don't mind the activity off screen but the influence isn't necessary. If people turn out gay then so be it...but advertising sex in any way is wrong screen...we really don't need to go down this avenue.

There are alot of people Like myself that watch trek because it has more conservative values...making homosexuality a common occurence in Trek would lead me to leave it behind with a strong sense of moral direction. You see the world maybe changing it's moral temperture but mine will stay the same and I'll teach the same values to my children as were for myself. I'll always be non violent in those views but watching it and indulging it as entertainment. That's as much no, no for Christians as murder, sex before marriage, adultry...

Essentially morrality will change because people want to have as little limitations as possible. That's a selfish motive I just don't prescribe to.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:16 PM
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Andrew, I'll just say it now....I'm your biggest fan. I'll be here supporting you and this thread.

Of course, you do know that at this board, it's going to be a bit iffy, right?

I'll say that the movie producers will probably not be so bold as to make any of the established characters gay (despite reams of fan fic that makes perfect sense suggesting otherwise). However, it would behoove them to at least acknowledge a gay couple....It could be as simple as Kirk having to inform the surviving spouse of his husband's death during an away mission...it wouldn't take any extreme efforts on the part of the writers.

I think it's long past time that Star Trek The Franchise addresses this issue. Based on my friends, gays represent a large part of the Star Trek fan base so failing to address it would cowardly and rather offensive.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:29 PM
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How about this:

In the future, nobody will care! I mean, only a handful of major characters have gotten their sexuality defined in ANY way, let alone had a romance on-screen. Considering that, to create a gay character purely to have a gay character would be terrible writing. How would it affect the story, unless you're making the story about how a gay character's gay?

I think the gay issue should be a complete non-issue in the future, like Picard's lack of hair. Like Roddenberry said about baldness in the 24th century: "Noone will care."
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:34 PM
Berengarius7 Berengarius7 is offline
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I don't care if there's a gay, bi, lesbian tri-sexual alien with green teeth who eats cockroaches and bread mold. It doesn't really matter to me, i just want this movie to be enjoyable, popular and make lots of money so Star Trek doesn't die a slow,painful death in obscurity. I hope it makes money too, lots of money, (did i mention lots of money, so it will spawn sequels and possible t.v. spinoffs?)but on it's merits and it's good acting, writing, direction and production quality and audience enjoyability factor. Not just for it's marvellous special effects.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
How about this:

In the future, nobody will care! I mean, only a handful of major characters have gotten their sexuality defined in ANY way, let alone had a romance on-screen. Considering that, to create a gay character purely to have a gay character would be terrible writing. How would it affect the story, unless you're making the story about how a gay character's gay?

I think the gay issue should be a complete non-issue in the future, like Picard's lack of hair. Like Roddenberry said about baldness in the 24th century: "Noone will care."

Well I know it's supposed to be an extrapolation of the future
but in reality...you're trying to make Trek palitable to everyone.
You could litteral risk the entire franchise by doing this...

but I could be wrong. Some will watch trek regardless.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Well I know it's supposed to be an extrapolation of the future
but in reality...you're trying to make Trek palitable to everyone.
You could litteral risk the entire franchise by doing this...

but I could be wrong. Some will watch trek regardless.
I'd consider the movie a whole lot MORE palatable if they left peoples' sexual orientations the hell out of it, and just told us all a good story. And from a story perspective, tossing in a gay character just to have a gay character would be death imo.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:51 PM
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Agreed, making sexuality an issue would point out a difference that need not be mentioned, its like.....water...you know someone drinks it... who cares what flavor they put in it ya know?.. its still water, and it still has no place on the bridge of the enterprise, hetoro, gay, whatever.
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Old 03-11-2008, 09:51 PM
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Sometimes I think we can be so consumed by these issues that it takes a life of it's own. But we're talking about sex. And we're talking about a pg-13 movie. The idea behind these is that commonly kids can watch it with out asking certain very difficult questions that really needs to be in the hands of the parent to address.

This is entertainment. Certain real life issues really needs to steer clear of entertainment. If view discretion becomes and issue...then trek has really mutated. I want my kids to watch trek with these sort of questions coming up. Give me the chance to decided when they exposed to this real life stuff. This isn't a slavery black/white issue, it's sex...and I think Star Trekk nemesis was creepy enough that I don't endorse kids watching it untill 15... But explaining what's going on to my daughter or son is not something I'll ever look highly upon when it shows up and I know it will.

The Crusher thing with the Trill was not as obvious.
But guys in most cultures don't kiss unless there is something more going on then friendship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew86 View Post
No offense, Saquist, but you seem to be in awe of some pretty tired arguments and straw men....
For starters nobody has suggested that gay people lack free will any more than straight people. That little snarky sarcastic comment isn't anything to be wowed by because it isn't based in any kind of reality and therefore ads nothing to debate.

The truth is that no gay man or woman I have ever met has ever said the chose to be gay. Your response to that seems to be but on some hidden secret level they did chose it, but just don't know it! I don't know what definition of choice you are using, but that just sounds like post-modern (and I hope you'll excuse my vulgarity because I can think of no other word with quite the same meaning) 'wank' to me...

And if I were you, I wouldn't be so impressed by the "sure gays can marry... ...the opposite gender" argument. All it means is that gays cannot marry someone they fall in love with and share an intimate relationship with while straight people can. That's simple inequality.
Sorry Andrew...he made good points. It doesn't matter how many times you heard it. Will anything new really change your mind? I doubt it. Some people are just set in there ways.

I've never particularly cared for the steeling of social traditions. In this case marriage. I wondered...why do they want to be bonded by a tradition which finds this behavior perverse? It's envy. What else can it be? If Homosexuality is really becoming it's own culture then there own tradition will be necessary...

Why slaughter and denigrate someone elses traditions? Be bonded for life...why seek a churck why look for approval undergot and why behave as though the rights that women won for their freedom, should be suddenly be for men who've been doing the dominating for all of history?

Really Andrew I think he's made good...actually excellent points. This pretense of lack of free will really sounds convenient. Not making a choice is still a choice.

I think you shouldn't be troubled about my agreement with wal. Nor should you be surprised.
That's how opinions works. You think I'm 100% your and I think you're 200% wrong. The details are unimportant because we're resolved toward our own agenda.

You see I know you haven't really listened. (It's okay I really don't mind) I haven't deluded myself to think this was something you'd or others would understand. It was an expression. I've found it helpful not to leap and jump at everything I take issue with. Sometimes it means more not to say anything at all. So this hasn't been about which ones right which ones wrong. We can beat ourselves over the head with that log all day and some on the forum will and there will be no end...no resolution no mutal agreement....Oh yeah that's right...Star Trek is supposed to have those ideals....

I wonder where they are in the people of this thread?
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  #10  
Old 03-11-2008, 09:51 PM
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Star Trek has never left sexuality "out of it"...Kirk always bagged the babe...heck, Spock bagged a babe and McCoy married a babe (can we assume bagging?).

It's so fun when people who support a show which is unabashedly supporting of heterosexual indulgence say "can't we just be neutral?"...

Star Trek has never been neutral on sexuality, it's been very aggressively in favor of sex, lots of it, regardless of species...so, it's about time it owned up the issue of same gender sex.

I will take a moment to say I recall a DS9 episode that did address the issue very nicely. Of course, it was girl on girl so that's always easier for the dudes, huh?

However, I think the franchise does deserve to have it acknowledged that they've dealt with the issue (to the point of having the characters kiss on screen and express their love...pretty good!).

But, until they tackle men engaged in a homosexual relationship, they will be cowards.
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