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  #71  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
But Guinan (who was probably not actually telepathic) did a better job than Troi!
I think Guinan had an edge with Picard because of the mysterious "Past" togeter. Besides for the first 2 seasons Troi was treated like a glorified prop.
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  #72  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:27 AM
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Troi is a psychologist and perfect for the counselor job.
Guinan on the other hand is rather an advisor, for anyone who pops into her bar and especially for Picard. Picard does not like counseling, when he has problems either Troi has to follow him (GEN) or a friend has to open his eyes (Lily in FC). And when he has non-personal problems, tough decisions to face as captain, he will consult Guinan.

Let's take e.g. Worf having problems with Alexander. Troi will give him explicit advice while Guinan might serve him a prune juice and indirectly remind him that he is not a typical Klingon, thus showing him that he is also half-human in a way.
That's kinda the difference of Guinan's and Troi's style.
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  #73  
Old 07-31-2009, 02:03 PM
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But Guinan (who was probably not actually telepathic) did a better job than Troi!

Guinan was more psychic - her gifts were just different not necessarily better, I think.
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  #74  
Old 07-31-2009, 02:14 PM
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Guinan was more psychic - her gifts were just different not necessarily better, I think.
Guinan was "A Listener" and thus extremely perceptive, often seeing the things that the person she is helping could never see.

Troi relies entirely on being able to know exactly what is on the mind of her subject, and I remember one episode where she lost her telepathy, and was completely and utterly useless - falling back on generic stuff that she had been taught in classes, and eventually falling upon a solution by complete chance!
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  #75  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
Guinan was "A Listener" and thus extremely perceptive, often seeing the things that the person she is helping could never see.

Troi relies entirely on being able to know exactly what is on the mind of her subject, and I remember one episode where she lost her telepathy, and was completely and utterly useless - falling back on generic stuff that she had been taught in classes, and eventually falling upon a solution by complete chance!

Guinan says she's just a listener but there is more then that going on. I recall the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" when the Enterprise C changes the timeline. Guinan senses that something has changed = she intuits that Yar doesn't belong there. That's more than just hearing something someone says.
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  #76  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:35 PM
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Guinan was "A Listener" and thus extremely perceptive, often seeing the things that the person she is helping could never see.
And besides that she's been around.
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  #77  
Old 08-02-2009, 02:57 PM
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Guinan says she's just a listener but there is more then that going on. I recall the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" when the Enterprise C changes the timeline. Guinan senses that something has changed = she intuits that Yar doesn't belong there. That's more than just hearing something someone says.
Yes she has seemingly mystical abilities, but that does not mean, and does not need to mean, that she is telepathic. That would not only be a bit boring and overdone, but would take all the mystery away from her!


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And besides that she's been around.
Very true!
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  #78  
Old 08-10-2009, 01:02 AM
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Troi has her empathic gift but like Boyce said: "Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he'll never tell his doctor..."

To be honest, if I wanted someone to tell me about what might be going through a stranger's mind, I would want Troi on hand. But it wasn't Troi who got Riker to take command in the Best of Both Worlds, it was Guinan. Frankly maybe it was just the way Troi was used, but she never became the confidant like McCoy or Boyce. She was never the one who could go to her Captain and say "What's on your mind?"

Troi is a good person to help put the pieces back together. The others were good to help those around them help themselves before things got that bad.
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  #79  
Old 08-10-2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman View Post
Troi has her empathic gift but like Boyce said: "Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he'll never tell his doctor..."

To be honest, if I wanted someone to tell me about what might be going through a stranger's mind, I would want Troi on hand. But it wasn't Troi who got Riker to take command in the Best of Both Worlds, it was Guinan. Frankly maybe it was just the way Troi was used, but she never became the confidant like McCoy or Boyce. She was never the one who could go to her Captain and say "What's on your mind?"

Troi is a good person to help put the pieces back together. The others were good to help those around them help themselves before things got that bad.
True, but really I prefer Guinan, an all round better character!

Sort of like Rafiki!
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  #80  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:01 PM
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Awesome idea looks like the crew roster is taking shape.
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