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  #21  
Old 06-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Samuel Samuel is offline
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It's OTTO!!!!!

Answer to the question is that humans should always have total control when necessary.

One question being debated in military and defense industry circles is whether or not smart UAVs should be given the authority to decide on their own when to fire their missiles or drop their bombs. Or... should a pilot still have to push that button? Yes its a much tougher issue than whether or not a 777 should have a pilot or not but the principle is the same.
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2009, 01:18 AM
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Now this is an interesting thread!

I had been aware of the difference on the Airbus/Boeing approach (except the 777, is that a break from the Boeing norm?), and while it may be taking it to extremes, a work colleague whose husband used to work around planes refuses to fly on any flight which an Airbus is used on. He doesn't believe their approach is safe if and when things go wrong - because the pilot has less options.

I can't really comment on the overall tech position intrinsically my thought would always be that a trained pilot should be able to take over full control of a plane to execute any course of action he deems needed, without a programmed computer saying 'no'.

The human element must never be removed, nor restricted in it's ability to function.

As a sidebar - I'm curious but regarding the plane that was landed safely on the Hudson river, could a computer have made that landing? I don't recall if it was a Boeing or an Airbus, but I seem to think it was Boeing made.
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:37 AM
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It was an Airbus. There's an article in Vanity Fair this month that credits the plane with having a more advanced control system, which (along with Sullenberg's experience as a glider pilot) was a major factor in the plane landing safely.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:57 AM
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Well I think many problems evolve through human failures.
Computers are more precise, don't have any mood and performance swings, no attention span and no declining attention, they can calculate many variables at one time and with a higher calculation speed...

However, computers can get technical malefunctions, could be disabled by external factors, and they are only as good as their program. And I personally don't know how mature and evolved the AI of these programs already is.

Therefore I think a middle course is the best:
Combine both aspects with each other.
Let a computer reduce the risk of human failure, but let the human pilot be able to overwrite the computer's control.
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerhanner View Post
It was an Airbus. There's an article in Vanity Fair this month that credits the plane with having a more advanced control system, which (along with Sullenberg's experience as a glider pilot) was a major factor in the plane landing safely.
So it was mix of both working together that helped the safe landing, rather than one exclusively?
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  #26  
Old 06-12-2009, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Trek Viewer View Post
Airbus and Boeing have different philosophies when it comes to the ability of pilots to control their airplanes. Although Airbus has an emergency system called "Alternate Law," the basic framework of its computer control system is to prevent pilots from executing any maneuvers that the computer decides is "unlawful," or in other words, that it decides the airplane cannot handle. I understand that "Alternate Law" and "Direct Law" apply only when flight control computers are malfunctioning.

Boeing, on the other hand, allows pilots ultimate control over the aircraft. The computer can and does warn about certain maneuvers, as I understand it, but it does not have the ability to prevent pilots from executing any maneuver, regardless of how "unlawful" it is.

This is separate from the question of whether either manufacturer uses "fly by wire."

What do you think? Should computers or should human beings have the final say?
I believe the computer only limits you to the maximal allowed stresses to the plane. Which means, it will limit you from performing maneuvers which can rip apart the plane. I dunno, but it might not be such a bad thing.
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy View Post
I believe the computer only limits you to the maximal allowed stresses to the plane. Which means, it will limit you from performing maneuvers which can rip apart the plane. I dunno, but it might not be such a bad thing.
Unless under extreme circumstances and a difference of opinion the pilot might believe there is no choice but to risk it. But the likelyhood of such a thing is so remote that it probably would never come up. There is no correct answer but based on the numbers its probably more likely for a situation the Airbus system was designed for would happen.

However, and I havent heard this discussed yet, but perhaps its partially in response to people intentionally running a plane into the ground. I dont know how far back the system goes. Would that system have stopped them? Over enough time it would happen anyways when the fuel ran out. I think some military aircraft will for example automatically pull up in such situations.
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  #28  
Old 06-12-2009, 11:01 PM
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Have we never seen Stealth??
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  #29  
Old 06-12-2009, 11:08 PM
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Nope. Heard it was terrible and not even worth a rental.
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  #30  
Old 06-12-2009, 11:09 PM
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Haha, I can't necessarily argue with that - but the point was relevant.
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