The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > Basic plot flaws *Spoilers*
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 06-03-2009, 10:25 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
What do you do with Number One after the movie? I guess that's why they chose Pike and Uhura.
And how does a romance between two fairly equal persons work well? I guess that's why they chose Uhura.

We already have a strong female character in the movie, one which can reappear in later movies, one which, as you have pointed out, took Scotty's position as #4 (not in terms of chain of command but character relevance): Uhura.
Well, thats the beauty of it. If they would wish to make something out of the relation, then they can use Number One in the next movie. If they dont find a good way to make the relationship go on, then they dont need to worry: Number One is now Captain of a nother ship. Thanks for all the fish.

To make Number One Spocks love interest increases the drama (she being a hostage, Spock being Captain, cant sacrifice her life, etc.) AND it gives you all the freedom to do with it what works or to skip it entirely (as Carol Marcus just disapeared in ST III to never be seen again or like this whale woman in ST IV said goodbye and was never heard from again).

But now with Uhura... uhm... that forces them to make the relationship be a topic in the next flick, come what may. I foresee the next chain of contrived plot inconsistencies.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-03-2009, 10:35 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

Aha, so your romance is great but Uhura and Spock's romance has to lead to contrived plot inconsistencies? If the writers don't want to continue it, they can just let Spock und Uhura break off in the meantime.
I don't want to ridicule your ideas, they are great, but I hope you realize your natural bias that we all have when we have an idea.

Furthermore, if you have Number One you also need Pike, or who commands the ship? I care little about continuity, but if she had been captain all the canonites would have protested.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-03-2009, 10:48 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Aha, so your romance is great but Uhura and Spock's romance has to lead to contrived plot inconsistencies? If the writers don't want to continue it, they can just let Spock und Uhura break off in the meantime.
I don't want to ridicule your ideas, they are great, but I hope you realize your natural bias that we all have when we have an idea.

Furthermore, if you have Number One you also need Pike, or who commands the ship? I care little about continuity, but if she had been captain all the canonites would have protested.
Well, I am not a script writer, nor do I say my two cents are worth a dime.

To the first point, no, the Uhura relationship doesnt suck or anything. It just doesnt add anything to the story. It doesnt give Spock nor Uhura any dilemma, puts them in no position where they have to make choices. Perhaps the next movie does.

Second, I foresee a Yoko Ono problem in the next movie. Think about it! If Spock has Uhura, then what emotional need does he have for a friendship with Kirk or Bones? If he has trouble he would naturally go for Uhura to ask for advice. And if he does not then Uhura is reduced to a cute cuddly sidekick girlfriend bleh. That cant be it either.

Also, to drop the relationship entirely leaves two options: Either never mention it again, wich is weak to say the least. Or have them break up. Why? What causes the trouble, why did the relationship not work? This must get explained. That bears the risk that scenes are in the next movie that again do not contribute to the story. It will be hard to get this into the story in a way that feels organical. But its not impossible. Its just that after having seen this movie and how many scenes where in the script that did not feel organical, I am just a little sceptical wether they can pull it off next time. Thats all.

To the last point: No, you dont need Pike for the same reasons they did not have Number One. He is just not there, because the story does not need him

(After Starfleet Academy calls all Cadetts to the hangar, I would have cross cutted between the Instructor invoking the Cadetts and a briefing of the senior officers. Here an Admiral would give Commanders and Captains their ships. There you could have had a short Pike cameo, where he gets assigned the Faragut or any other ship. And for the sake that fans would hate Pike to die on another ship, have some lifepods get rescued by the Enterprise while Kirk is on Delta Vega. Pike ends up on sickbay, his face severely burned).

Last edited by Botany Bay : 06-03-2009 at 10:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-03-2009, 10:53 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

I don't get the sense that Spock/Uhura are likely to get in the way of the main trio. It depends on how far the relationship may go.

But if the three of them are discussing a command decision, either on the bridge or in private, I don't think Spock is going to turn and get Uhura's thoughts every time.

I think it will add dimension to Spock and Uhura - but I don't see it automatically putting a wrecking ball through the trio.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:05 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

Good points. So if I understood you correctly, #1 would be kind of a Vulcan mate substitute for Spock, no person from which he can learn more about humanity and his human side, which seems to be the main reason for having joined Starfleet in both universes.
I also like your idea of the turbolift scene with Bones instead of Uhura in this context. McCoy's line that he likes the "pointed ear bastard" was promising in terms of showing how their friendship started perhaps on normal terms until their playful insulting begins.

In defense of the Uhura-Spock relationship, perhaps Spock wanted contact to humans during his time at the Academy, and Spock-Uhura worked as good contrast to Kirk-Gaila and gave Uhura reason to doubt Kirk's leadership skills when he took command, which made her look tough.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:11 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post

In defense of the Uhura-Spock relationship, perhaps Spock wanted contact to humans during his time at the Academy, and Spock-Uhura worked as good contrast to Kirk-Gaila and gave Uhura reason to doubt Kirk's leadership skills when he took command, which made her look tough.
Yupp, thats true, I guess. Uhura saw Kirks behaviour in the bar. She saw him with Gaila. She saw him cheat the Kobayashi Maru test, she seemingly understood immediatly that it was a cheat, judging from her reactions. She saw his cocky behaviour during the test. She saw him run around with Mickey Mouse hands. She has quite a lot of reason to doubt his leadership skills. The Spock relationship doesnt add anything here either.

Oh, by the way, I would have given Cupcake a better reason to beat the crap out of Kirk. Something like: "Hey, I know you, your Kirk, right? During the last hover bike race you streaked Jones. He is still in a hospital re-learning how to walk."

That should have sufficed to give the cadetts a reason for revenge and it would have given Uhura even more reason to dispise Kirk a little, while also finding him cute somehow.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:15 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

Well Mr.Cupcake just was a jerk, like the Klingon on K-7 who insulted Scotty's ship. Difference being that it's not a very nice impression of Starfleet for Trek newcomers, but part of the purpose of the movie was to recreate TOS goofiness.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Well Mr.Cupcake just was a jerk, like the Klingon on K-7 who insulted Scotty's ship. Difference being that it's not a very nice impression of Starfleet for Trek newcomers, but part of the purpose of the movie was to recreate TOS goofiness.
I know. Its just a little of a loss to have Cupcake be a mere bully. If Kirk would have been the cause for Cupcakes anger, then it would have added so much to the whole topic of growing up, taking responsibility, instead of being a cynical guy who just doesnt give a damn about anything. And all just by adding one little line.

As it is now, Cupcake just starts a fight to impress a girl and Kirk plays along. Mmmmmhhhh... well, it is okay, but not good enough, if you ask me.

Whatever, now you see what a geek like me wastes his precious brain cells on. Rewriting a movie in my head. What a life.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:20 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

And a good ol' fistfight turned up nearly every week!

P.S - Liked Uhura's emphasis of 'Captain' when she said to him on the real bridge. Nice touch.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:30 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

@BB: Well, Kirk made Cupcake hit him with his cocky and arrogant behaviour. It just summed up Kirk's early life in a few minutes.
Putting the event of Kirk's provocation into dialogue would be inferior to seeing and hearing it and having a decent reason to hit Kirk would only make Cupcake look good and Kirk even worse than he already does.

@Kevin: That is the most obvious reason, ShatKirk fights, so we wanna see PineKirk fight too. And we wanna see the difference between Kirk's streetfighting, Spock's efficient and Sulu's elegant fighting styles.
Furthermore, fighting and grabbing on are powerful visual motives for Kirk in this movie.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.