[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Samuel

Not I. But then again I am not well versed in all things Trek.

Well we all need to have some skills

[cjopbj]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

You guys didn't know?

I only watch some of the TV shows (TOS, TNG, DS9) and movies. I don't read any of the books and just began on this forum a couple months ago. And I don't read any of the peripheral material like the autobios of actors. So, to answer, no. There is a lot about the old timeline I didn't know. That's one reason, I suppose, I love this new timeline. We're all on the same footing again

[chator]

Originally Posted by That Metal Beastie

It was both intentional and not. The emotions Spock displayed early on were certainly written and performed that way intentionally. And yes, it was decided a little later he showed no emotions because Vulcans had no emotions. Then later it was decided that Spock, being half human, did have emotions but with rigid Vulcan control surpressed and controlled them.

It was not that Nimoy didn't have a handle on the character but that the creators- producers, writers and Nimoy- were still in the process of developing and nailing down the character of Mr. Spock.

That all was 'taken as canon' because that's how was canon developed and established. It was determined decades ago that 'if it was on the screen, it was canon'. And that's been (for the most part) true for these decades. And when something presented on screen seemed to contradict canon, explainations for these apparent canon violations were contrived. And were often, if not usually, satisfying. And THAT my friend has been the pleasure and pain of Trek canon.

What JJ, Orci and Kurtzman did was look at the early 'emotional', developing Spock performances and gave them a canonical(?) explaination. Brilliant and satisfying, IMO.

I discovered an interesting passage in Nimoy's I AM SPOCK, it reads:

"Spock's "hypnotic" looks strongly affects Earth females and he goes to great pains too avoid too much contact with them. There is a back story on this-many years ago when Mr. Spock first joined the service, he was careless on this score, perhaps even enjoyed this strange ability over Earth women. But it quickly created both personal and professional troubles."

This is taken from a May 1966 memo to Nimoy by Roddenberry on the Spock character, unofficial. But it seems to leave open the opportunity for a backstory involving Spock and a romantic relationship with an Earth female he had a professional relationship. But no specific mention of Uhura, and if a relationship between the two had been in the characters' backstory, it definately would have made itself felt in the early episodes of TOS.

[MigueldaRican]

Here we go with the exaggerations yet again.

Originally Posted by chator

By now most of us have seen Zachary Quinto's portrayal of the Spock character in the new Star Trek Movie. While I loved Quinto as a Vulcan (come to think of it, he would make a good-lookin Romulan as well), i couldn't help but feel the performance was off, that is, not in line with the portrayal of Spock by Nimoy, which this character is supposed to be, at an earlier stage. Off in terms of how this Vulcan copes with both sex and violence, compared with Nimoy's incarnation of the character. Can we simply ride this off as the result of the intense pubertal urges of a younger Vulcan? Or the uncontrollable breakdown of a character who has just lost both his mother and homeworld? Or even hypothesize that this Spock isn't the same Spock that will develop into the character we know and love from TOS? Yes, i know Nimoy's Spock has demonstrated violence in TOS episodes such as "Amok Time", where he battles and nearly kills Kirk. And Nimoy's Spock has also displayed emotion in episodes like "This side of Paradise," and "The Naked Time," but these were unusual circumstances that provoked the revelation of these "hidden" emotions. Quinto's Spock embraces his emotions, that is the difference.

The unusual circumstances were in this movie as well. Spock does not "embrace his emotions". What movie were you watching? No, I'm not trying to be an a-hole or flame you, I really gotta know. Because the Vulcan discipline towards a successful all logic/no emotion way of life is quite clear in this movie. The circumstances where Spock ends up going towards the emotional side are also quite clear. Old Spock told Kirk to bring out his emotional side on purpose (a tactic not new to Trek since this very thing happens quite a few times in TOS).

As a boy Vulcan the outburst was brought on by other immature boy Vulcans. Yes, I said "immature boy Vulcans". This is something Trekkers have to come to terms with. It's like having that favorite professor of yours and somehow coming to realize something: that professor was once an immature child.

Let's get something straight: Vulcans are not androids. Remember the scene in "Reunification" when Spock and Data converse? Spock comments that Data's personality is what Vulcans enviously try to attain. Vulcans are not emotionless!

They only try to be, to live a life governed by logic.

Originally Posted by chator

I realize Nimoy has given his full support to this film, Quinto's Spock included. And some may argue, if it's good enough for Nimoy, it's good enough for me. But i can't help but wonder if we are losing the "real" Spock.

Curious. Who is the "real" Spock?

BTW: I feel it important to point out that Spock is half human. You'll say: Duh, I know this. Okay, Spock's father is Vulcan, Spock's mother is human. You'll say: I'm not an idiot. Okay, now we go down a new road of psychology here. "Like father like son" comes to mind, but not only that. The Freudian psychology that when men try to find a mate, they are often drawn towards women that resemble their mother in some way. See where I'm going with this? You'll say:

And another thing. It's a bit hilarious how "conservative" a lot of Trekkers act when it comes to sexuality being portrayed in Star Trek. It's like there's some assumption that mates, especially Vulcan mates, sleep in separate beds like in the old black white movies. I'm sorry, not movies, picture shows. Talkies. Come on, people. Sex is real. Let's get over the birds and bees talk here. The Vulcan mating is probably not unlike human mating, otherwise Sarek would not have been obliged to mate with Amanda. So... I think it's safe to say our pointed ear green blooded individuals know a thing or two about the horizontal grind. Okay?

[DevilEyes]

Originally Posted by chator

I discovered an interesting passage in Nimoy's I AM SPOCK, it reads:

"Spock's "hypnotic" looks strongly affects Earth females and he goes to great pains too avoid too much contact with them. There is a back story on this-many years ago when Mr. Spock first joined the service, he was careless on this score, perhaps even enjoyed this strange ability over Earth women. But it quickly created both personal and professional troubles."

This is taken from a May 1966 memo to Nimoy by Roddenberry on the Spock character, unofficial. But it seems to leave open the opportunity for a backstory involving Spock and a romantic relationship with an Earth female he had a professional relationship. But no specific mention of Uhura, and if a relationship between the two had been in the characters' backstory, it definately would have made itself felt in the early episodes of TOS.

That is an extremely interesting quote. I have heard before about the character notes about Spock's "hypnotic" influence over women (perhaps referenced in the song Uhura sings to tease Spock in "Charlie X"), but not about the backstory involving his past indiscretion.

I agree that it is unlikely that Uhura and Spock were meant to have had an affair in the prime timeline. In scenes in TOS, I see people in a professionl/friendly relationship with an UST that never went anywhere, rather than former lovers. But quotes like that certainly lend credibility to a possibility of such a storyline in the alternate timeline.

[Enterprise Captain]

I found the relationship between Spock and Uhura interesting and I think it adds to the character rather then takes something away. I also think we are going to see a slightly more emotional Spock in this timeline due to the events that transpired in this film. First this is a younger Spock then we have seen before so he hasn't mastered his emotions fully yet. Second this Spock has lost his home and his mother at the same time something Spock Prime did not experience. Because of this Sarek opened up to Spock and told him he loved his mother and that he didn't just marry her because it was logical. I also think because of this joint loss that Spock and Sarek will have a closer relationship in this universe then Spock Prime and Sarek Prime did. Also Spock Prime has told his younger self to "do what feels right" in this case. I think just as Spock Prime has embraced his human side in his later life perhaps he has influenced this younger Spock to do so a little earlier. I thought they handled the turbolift scene extremely well with Spock and Uhura and the kissing on the transporter pad was a little weird but not a big deal. He was pretty "emotionally compromised" and if I was in a situation where I may never see someone I loved again I would defiantly like to get in a few last kisses and a warm embrace.

[horatio]

Let's not forget that Spock went on a suicide mission. He lost his mother, his planet, will most likely not come back from the mission ... and he is supposed to care about protocol in such a situation and not say goodbye to Uhura?