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  #71  
Old 05-31-2009, 11:40 PM
Samuel Samuel is offline
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And so if you are the Klingons, you send a very risky mission that will certainly cause the feds to stop at nothing from destroying you. You used Pearl Harbor. Part of the decision used in favor by the Japanese military leadership to attack was because they thought they could destroy the US ability to respond in the short term (battleships and especially carriers) and a negotiated peace would be reached before they could. Also it was an isolated island... not the mainland with heavier defenses. Oceans aside, imagine if they had leveled the White House and congress, probably with the president in it. As I am sure the Fed president and council would be on Earth.

Of course it only enraged a nation into total war and didnt work out too well for the Japanese. You mentioned about Romulans getting involved. Just like Germany did and the war didnt work out so well for them either. So first, would the feds have only a small fleet or a reasonably sized one with moderate striking power... keeping in mind that Enterprise could level a planets surface by itself. If so, this attack would do nothing about the ability for a counter strike. So the question becomes would the Klingons think a devastating war is worth the risk. They are warriors but not idiots.

Anyways... things like this are interesting scenarios to consider. Besides, Roddenberry always tried to compare a Fed-Klingon war to a US-Soviet one. Not US-Japan. He was right.
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  #72  
Old 06-01-2009, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
And so if you are the Klingons, you send a very risky mission that will certainly cause the feds to stop at nothing from destroying you. You used Pearl Harbor. Part of the decision used in favor by the Japanese military leadership to attack was because they thought they could destroy the US ability to respond in the short term (battleships and especially carriers) and a negotiated peace would be reached before they could. Also it was an isolated island... not the mainland with heavier defenses. Oceans aside, imagine if they had leveled the White House and congress, probably with the president in it. As I am sure the Fed president and council would be on Earth.

Of course it only enraged a nation into total war and didnt work out too well for the Japanese. You mentioned about Romulans getting involved. Just like Germany did and the war didnt work out so well for them either. So first, would the feds have only a small fleet or a reasonably sized one with moderate striking power... keeping in mind that Enterprise could level a planets surface by itself. If so, this attack would do nothing about the ability for a counter strike. So the question becomes would the Klingons think a devastating war is worth the risk. They are warriors but not idiots.

Anyways... things like this are interesting scenarios to consider. Besides, Roddenberry always tried to compare a Fed-Klingon war to a US-Soviet one. Not US-Japan. He was right.
I like your comments, but consider this:

The Klingons are not like the Japanese: The Klingons are probably more powerful, compared to the Federation, than the Japanese were compared to the United States. You mentioned that the Japanese decided to bomb Pearl Harbor because it's an island; consider, however, that Japan itself was an island. Its resources were in no way comparable to that of the United States. Its economy was much smaller than America's, and it was much more dependent on foreign resources. In fact, the United States and Great Britain had imposed terms on Japan requiring it to keep a navy much smaller than that of either of them.

Further, in my story, the Klingons are acting in concert with the Romulans to strike against the Federation at its central point. This would be as if the Japanese and the Germans (i.e., two of the three Axis powers) had fought, at least initially, not the Allies, but basically the United States alone. As to why this would be so, please see the following.

In World War II, the Germans fought a two-front war. The Western front was a cakewalk compared to their ill-advised advance against the Soviets. Further, the Germans had no particular dog in the Pacific fight.

The scenario now, with Vulcan gone, would be as if Great Britain had been obliterated from the face of the Earth in 1938 and, having easily conquered France and the rest of continental Europe, the Germans had decided not to advance against the Soviets based on treaty. The Germans, playing the role of the Romulans, would have both manipulated the Japanese into a full-scale war and then reinforced the Japanese by sending their own ships to the Pacific. The full industrial might of Germany plus Nazified Europe, plus the Japanese Empire, would be brought forth against the United States. (Remember that the U.K., in this scenario, no longer exists.)

While the Federation still has the Andorians, Tellarites, and others, they do not and cannot logically compensate for the loss of the Vulcans, in that there is a net loss to Federation resources. In our historical analogy, the U.S. would still have Canada, Australia, the Republic of China, and others, but these, likewise, would not compensate for the loss of the U.K.

Since the Klingons are already a warlike race used to conquest, they would have a very good chance, given the new configuration of power, to catch the Federation at its weakest -- before it has had a chance to regroup -- and do what it might not be able to do in the future.

Last edited by Star Trek Viewer : 06-01-2009 at 12:07 AM.
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  #73  
Old 06-01-2009, 12:49 AM
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stop with the message crap already jesus... its an action movie and i want action. not some stupid message
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  #74  
Old 06-01-2009, 09:40 AM
Samuel Samuel is offline
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stop with the message crap already jesus... its an action movie and i want action. not some stupid message
Hehehe. Then you dont have to listen to it. You should be thankful. Would you prefer listening to people explore the social message of Pineapple Express?
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  #75  
Old 06-01-2009, 09:55 AM
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If we want to keep up with the times, perhaps the new timeline's Federation-Klingon relationship should be more akin to modern Sino-American geopolitics. It would be a return to a more totalitarian-styling of the Klingons (a la TOS), rather than "imperial samurai Viking bikers."

Remember, the Klingons probably lost 15-20% of their fleet in action against the Narada in 2258, so they're also wounded and probably angry with the Star Empire (possibly not accepting any explanation by the Romulan government as to Nero's status within the empire, whose response was probably something like, "Who?").

It possible that, while they're focused more on the Romulans (conveniently keeping them from taking advantage of the sudden perceived Federation weakness), they can only engage in a proxy-war by funding/supporting a belligerent smaller power (akin to the DPRK) into harassing Federation assets. (As I've said before, I would love to see something like this played out on Axanar.)
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  #76  
Old 06-01-2009, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DammitJim View Post
do you mean they encounter a race where homosexuality is a crime (or some such) or that there should be an Enterprise crewmember(s) that are homosexual it's just treated matter of factly (like the background alien characters were treated as natural as though their roles could easily have been played as humans)?
Possible ideas. I, for one, have been curious as to how homosexuality is dealt with by other races in the ST verse. For example, how do Vulcans view it? Do they view it as illogical since since there is no procreation involved? What would be the consequences of a gay Vulcan at his/her first Pon farr and about to be wedded to his/her betrothed? (Especially, you know, with only 10,000 Vulcans left and many of them not in child bearing years.)

Just things to consider.
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  #77  
Old 06-01-2009, 06:10 PM
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Hmmm what about the go looking for Kirk's old freind Gary Mitchell?
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  #78  
Old 06-01-2009, 06:23 PM
Samuel Samuel is offline
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Hmmm what about the go looking for Kirk's old freind Gary Mitchell?
Nope. Nadda. Never. Nay. Besides, hes floating out in space somewhere with his air supply cut off.
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  #79  
Old 06-01-2009, 06:35 PM
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Nope. Nadda. Never. Nay. Besides, hes floating out in space somewhere with his air supply cut off.
Star Trek 12-The Search For Kirk's Pants
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  #80  
Old 06-01-2009, 07:39 PM
Samuel Samuel is offline
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Star Trek 12-The Search For Kirk's Pants
Spock: "Captain, dont you feel it is a bit... drafty?"
Kirk: "Not at all Spock, I am quite comfortable."
Spock: "But havent you noticed all those stares at you?"
Kirk: "Of course. They are admiring my dashingly handsome good looks."
Spock: "Well sir actually you look.... sorry nevermind. Are you sure it isnt because of something else?"
Kirk: "What else could it be? Oh the uniform of course. Its a nice one, isnt it? Gold suits me well."
Spock: "Our new uniforms are nice arent they. But if I may... in this case you are out of uniform."
Kirk: What do you mean? Its the right shirt color and right rank insignia."
Spock: "Captain.... look down."
Kirk: "Alright I will look dow...... sh*t, where are my pants?"
Spock: "Sulu tells me you have been walking around without them for a couple of hours."
Kirk: "Uh.. yea ok. But where did they go? Last time I took them off was in......... Uhura! Contact cadet Barbie and tell her to meet me in her quarters."
Spock: "Captain, cant you get in yourself?"
Kirk: "Sure I can get in the door but I need the key to unlock the trunk.
Spock: "The trunk, captain?"
Kirk: "Dont ask. Spock you have the bridge."
Spock (to Uhura): "The way hes going I will be captain in 3 months, tops."
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