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  #21  
Old 09-25-2008, 05:13 AM
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I loved TNG, but I still prefer TOS, especially season 3 when they had ditched Rodenberry. R's vision of Star Trek is so pretentious and dull imho. TNG also improved after R stepped down for season 3. I agree that the characters in TNG were by and large inferior to TOS. Picard and Data are the exception, I prefer both to Kirk and Spock, but Riker is a clownish Kirk rip off, Worf is a Romulan made up as a Klingon (ie honourable etc), Crusher never achieved the importance (nor medical skill) of McCoy and Geordi was a joke as Chief Engineer (a rather to specialised role for a former junior brdge officer to suddenly become). I like Troi, because she is other than Picard and Data acted with the greatest skill, plus she is a babe with such a sexy voice. There was one character I hated - Wesley Crusher! I HATE precocious brat charcters!

I also much prefered the TOS (or TOS era movie) Enterprise to the NCC 1701D. Hated the Throne room like arrangement of the chairs in TNG (captain has to stand up to see half his bridge!) and the exterior design is far to top heavy and has about 10x to many windows.

Despite all these handicaps the show still worked. 75% of the episodes were dull bottle shows, but the 25% that were not more than made up for them.
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  #22  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:52 PM
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I think there's a fine line to be balanced between Roddenberry's essentially highly optimistic vision of the future, and the reality felt in modern times that that kind of harmony (on Earth, never mind amongst the stars) is looking unlikely in the near future. TNG suffered a bit from being too much like TOS but it did start to evolve in later years to present a variation to that vision, which DS9 continued.
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  #23  
Old 10-19-2008, 03:50 PM
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This seems to be more of a TOS vs TNG thing but just to mention DS9, VOY and Ent that never reached TNGs level of success. The most recent treks have had a lot more competition and especially with Ent after 18 years of continuous trek it just wasn't new anymore and with trek carrying a heavy stigma it was never going to attract mass audiances even though seasons 3 + 4 where very good.

As for TOS, I always liked TNG more personally, the cast was a lot better developed, was a good ensamble and really explored a lot of science fiction and the humanity behind it. Though I think the films where definately best done by TOS.

Would be interesting to see how things had ogne if TOS gone for a whole 7 seasons and had the equivilent budget TNG enjoyed... but then had that been the case the last 40 years of star trek would have gone a lot differently!
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2009, 06:52 PM
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There are many more episodes of TNG. I don't think I could watch episodes of TNG over and over and still love them like I do TOS. I used to see the TOS episodes 4-5 times a year and never got tired of them. I don't think TNG has that kind of staying power. So TOS goes deeper for me.

But when it was on the air, TNG was like my religion. My value system. LaForge and Data were role models for me in my job. My favorite parts were always when Data and Geordi would put their heads together to solve some mind-boggling space-time paradox, then present options to Picard. That team was so proficient, it never even occurred to Picard that his officers could ever screw up. The super-competence sank so deep into my bones, it was like I was being programmed.
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2009, 06:22 AM
erruve erruve is offline
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[quote=Whitestar;94305]TNG had a good run, there's no question about that, but I would not say that its the best Trek series. Granted, it had its fair share of good episodes and while the actors were good, especially Picard Stewart and Brent Spiner's acting (with Marina Sirtis being a liability), the chemistry between them was never like TOS cast. They just were not as chrismatic as TOS cast and this in part has to do with the fact that TNG characters are not very interesting to begin with. This is not TNG cast fault, its Roddenberry's because he created these characters who came across as bland, righteous, preachy people who were true blue heroes who could do no wrong and always told the truth. They were essentially black and white characters with no shades of grey. Essentially, they were cardboard caricatures, not real human beings with flaws, warts, vices and all that good stuff. DS9 got that right and to an extent, even TOS, they were more real to me and that's why I can relate more to these people as opposed to TNG. But what's worse, TNG had no interpersonal conflict, thus, making the show very boring at times. Conflict is the very essence of good drama and if Roddenberry wanted to write for a show that featured no interpersonal conflict, then he would have been better off writing for Sesame Street! In a lot of ways, DS9 is a more worthy successor to TOS than TNG because both TOS and DS9 proved that despite the characters flaws, differences and internal conflicts, when push came to shove, they all worked together as a team and pulled through for each other. An example of this was the love-hate relationship in TOS involving Spock and McCoy and DS9 involving Quark and Odo. They had their differences but they always had a certain respect for each other and save each other lives many times. Michael Piller who wrote for TNG and DS9 said it best, "people who come from different places—honorable, noble people—will naturally have conflicts".

Furthermore, in one interview prior to TNG television premiere, Roddenberry stated that the relationship between Picard and Riker would be a more closer one than Kirk and Spock. Well, in retrospect, that never happened. While the relationship between Picard and Riker was that of respect and admiration, theirs was always more formal than Kirk and Spock. Kirk and Spock hugged each other, went on shoreleave together and even sang campfire songs together. They were more than just friends, colleagues and shipmates, they were family. That was never the case with Picard and Riker and I wished they had a deeper friendship than the final product. Hence, TNG cast did okay on tv, but barely because their chemistry felt forced and they can't carry a film to save their lives, their track record is proof of this. /quote]

This.

But I'll add that while DS9 stories were better (due to the way TV had evolved to maintain a story arc over many episodes) none of the characters beyond the original series has their iconic potential.

I believe the movie proves this point very well. The characters from the original series have reached a place within our culture that is the equivalent of literature. In other words, they are unique enough that in 40 years, Spock, Kirk and McCoy can be seen again with a different cast and be believable. We love these characters and can re-imagine them again and again.

This is quite an achievment for TV.

Erruve ~ Elf
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:16 PM
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Ok i wasnt much of the original series because i havent really seen to many episodes,so i guess TNG was the series that got me hooked(not including the ST movies)i grew to love the character, i wasnt much of a fan of the galaxy class starship was first but now i miss it.
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2009, 11:33 AM
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TNG has definitley been growing on me, I'm more a Kirk and Spock fan than Picard and Riker but comparing episodes, TNG storys are much better wen compared to TOS episodes were kirk and spock go to a civilsation like gangster mobs, episodes like that had nothin to do with space or what I think trek really is, while as TNG the storys are all good and are always what I think trek is with all the trekbabble but compared with TOS episodes like mirrors they don't come close
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  #28  
Old 05-29-2009, 11:41 AM
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I love TNG very much, but there is something special about TOS. Everytime I pop in a DVD of TOS, It's just special. That said, Voyager is by far my favorite Star Trek!
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  #29  
Old 05-30-2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready Room View Post
Patrick Stewart, classically trained theatre actor, really from there need I say more?
Thus the greatest flaw of TNG. Patrick Stewart sounded English not French. Maybe the universial translator was messed up.

A conversation of TOS vs TNG (and other modern ST series) is difficult. Both brought something very different.

TNG was perhaps the best series (of the newer stuff), however, it has flaws, and I think a ST fan could agrue DS9 held together the franchise the longest after the peak of TNG. DS9 brought new fans in, for the most part keep TNG fans.

So while I may prefer TNG, I may have to tip my hat to DS9, as it continued the universe when TNG was running dry (helping projects like TNG movies, VOY, and ENT).
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  #30  
Old 09-14-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thanis View Post
Thus the greatest flaw of TNG. Patrick Stewart sounded English not French. Maybe the universial translator was messed up.
Actually, Patrick Stewart originally performed the voice of Picard with a french accent at his audition, but Roddenberry preferred him to speak in his native british accent because he liked it better. Boy, talk about retarded! LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thanis View Post
So while I may prefer TNG, I may have to tip my hat to DS9, as it continued the universe when TNG was running dry (helping projects like TNG movies, VOY, and ENT).
Yes, DS9 was by far the best Trek of all, but unfortunately, the characters were never iconic unlike TOS cast. Ditto for TNG. But here's hoping that once the new TOS cast passes the baton to the new TNG crew, the writers will have an opportunity to flesh them out more and make them iconic as well.
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