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  #131  
Old 04-21-2009, 07:35 PM
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VulcanAeneas VulcanAeneas is offline
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Recently I have been writing my dissertation on the works of an ancient Athenian historian named Thucydides. In his History of the Peloponnesian War he details the events of a major war between two of the most influential city-states of the time; Athens and Sparta.

He claims that his work will be of use to people in the future because events from the past 'will, and in much the same ways, be repeated in the future' because of 'the human thing/human condition/human nature'

In my dissertation I am comparing the causes and effects of the Peloponnesian War to the modern War on Terror. One of the conclusions I came up with is that Thucydides (while being a bit depressing) is quite right about human nature. Humans will always be driven by similar motivations and react to things in similar ways.

Deep Space Nine is definitely Star Trek, it holds firm to Gene's vision of the future that we can rise above some petty emotions and attitudes and become better people. But, at the same time, DS9 shows a realistic side to the future of humanity combined with the idealism that forms the backbone of Stat Trek. It shows that while human nature at its core remains the same, we have grown as a society and become better people.

Star Trek is morality plays and Deep Space Nine shows that we don't have to drastically change or have a massive revolution to become better people. The people in the 24th century are like you and me, they are us who have grown and learned more about themselves. In many ways DS9 shows us that while the future may not be perfect - life will never be perfect - we, as a people, can weather any storm and we can face anything while holding onto a set of ideals.

Compramises are always made, and hard decisions will continue to confront us but we can achieve more.

Deep Space Nine is an entertaining series that teaches us something about ourselves and shows that even in our darkest hours there is always something to hold onto.
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  #132  
Old 04-22-2009, 02:01 AM
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kevin kevin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanAeneas View Post
Recently I have been writing my dissertation on the works of an ancient Athenian historian named Thucydides. In his History of the Peloponnesian War he details the events of a major war between two of the most influential city-states of the time; Athens and Sparta.

He claims that his work will be of use to people in the future because events from the past 'will, and in much the same ways, be repeated in the future' because of 'the human thing/human condition/human nature'

In my dissertation I am comparing the causes and effects of the Peloponnesian War to the modern War on Terror. One of the conclusions I came up with is that Thucydides (while being a bit depressing) is quite right about human nature. Humans will always be driven by similar motivations and react to things in similar ways.

Deep Space Nine is definitely Star Trek, it holds firm to Gene's vision of the future that we can rise above some petty emotions and attitudes and become better people. But, at the same time, DS9 shows a realistic side to the future of humanity combined with the idealism that forms the backbone of Stat Trek. It shows that while human nature at its core remains the same, we have grown as a society and become better people.

Star Trek is morality plays and Deep Space Nine shows that we don't have to drastically change or have a massive revolution to become better people. The people in the 24th century are like you and me, they are us who have grown and learned more about themselves. In many ways DS9 shows us that while the future may not be perfect - life will never be perfect - we, as a people, can weather any storm and we can face anything while holding onto a set of ideals.

Compramises are always made, and hard decisions will continue to confront us but we can achieve more.

Deep Space Nine is an entertaining series that teaches us something about ourselves and shows that even in our darkest hours there is always something to hold onto.


Without knowing much about the Sparta/Athens conflict itself - I can only support your analysis of DS9.
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  #133  
Old 04-22-2009, 11:44 AM
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TNG_Trekman TNG_Trekman is offline
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I love TNG. It's the best one. Just how it was done and the memories I have watching it with my dad growing up.

Now that I'm older. I know DS9 is the best written Star Trek as of now. It was a spin off that didn't take after it's predecessor. It changed it up. At the time people only thought of Star Trek as being about a "ship going where no man has gone before..." DS9 added more dimensions to the franchise. Something the later two sequels would not do.

The characters became more relatable. One of the prime things I see in DS9 is the story of Sisko and Jake. Sisko has lost his wife and is struggling between his job and raising his son alone. I'm not a father yet but that's something which alot of single parents can relate too easily. DS9 was human. It was the most human of Star Trek.

Among other things, the Dominion War was good storytelling. It added more depth to the show.

I don't want to keep going because I'll eventually start to repeat myself. But in the end. DS9 is Star Trek just as much as Star Trek V: The Final Frontier was horrible.
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  #134  
Old 04-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Samuel Samuel is offline
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Originally Posted by TNG_Trekman View Post
Among other things, the Dominion War was good storytelling. It added more depth to the show.
The Dominion plots got tedious at times and was the usual "take over the galaxy' story. IIRC correctly the... founders(?)... had a 'bringing order to the galaxy' motive but it wasnt explored very much. They were basically hunted to extinction once and that was part of it right? Since it was the central theme of the war from their point of view it should have been. It got a little lost in the grand scheme of things.
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  #135  
Old 04-22-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
The Dominion plots got tedious at times and was the usual "take over the galaxy' story. IIRC correctly the... founders(?)... had a 'bringing order to the galaxy' motive but it wasnt explored very much. They were basically hunted to extinction once and that was part of it right? Since it was the central theme of the war from their point of view it should have been. It got a little lost in the grand scheme of things.
But what it did was bring out the emotions that we might not have seen in our characters otherwise. And maybe some elements weren't dealt with to their full potential. It wasn't perfect. But it did ad more drama to the show. It started to get bigger and grander with the Prophets getting more involved and all that jazz. It was just a richer show. In my opinion.
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  #136  
Old 04-22-2009, 03:30 PM
wedestroymyths wedestroymyths is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
The Dominion plots got tedious at times and was the usual "take over the galaxy' story. IIRC correctly the... founders(?)... had a 'bringing order to the galaxy' motive but it wasnt explored very much. They were basically hunted to extinction once and that was part of it right? Since it was the central theme of the war from their point of view it should have been. It got a little lost in the grand scheme of things.
I'd have to disagree--the founder's backstory is woven deftly throughout the show's DNA. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's masterfully handled, the way it's teased out early through Odo's curiosity, then expanded through character actions and responses without relying too heavily on exposition is fantastic.

If some asked me to describe the motivations of the Founders, I could do it clearly off the top of my head: people once feared them resulting in strong, xenophobic behavior resulting in their desire to control everything they can so that they will be safe.

If someone asked me to explain the motivations of other Trek villains--say the badguy from Nemesis, which I've seen four or five times, I wouldn't have a clue.
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  #137  
Old 05-07-2009, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wedestroymyths View Post
I'd have to disagree--the founder's backstory is woven deftly throughout the show's DNA. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's masterfully handled, the way it's teased out early through Odo's curiosity, then expanded through character actions and responses without relying too heavily on exposition is fantastic.

If some asked me to describe the motivations of the Founders, I could do it clearly off the top of my head: people once feared them resulting in strong, xenophobic behavior resulting in their desire to control everything they can so that they will be safe.

If someone asked me to explain the motivations of other Trek villains--say the badguy from Nemesis, which I've seen four or five times, I wouldn't have a clue.
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  #138  
Old 05-09-2009, 05:32 PM
The Forge The Forge is offline
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Motivations of some of the Trek Villians:
1. Xinidi Repitlians: Lust for power over the over Xindi and hatred for all Mammalian species.
2. Son'a: Revenge against thier Ba'ku parents, and eternal life via the planets ring particales.
3. Shinzon: Revenge against the Romulans who made him a slave on Remus, Reman equality.
4. Nero: Revenge against the Federation. (In the film and ARG).

How can DS9 not be part of Trek. Gene Rodneberry was a little to hard on the Utopian front yes but he did recognise wars were ineviatble. Eg: Earth-Romulan war, Federation-Klingoin War, Federation- Cardassian War.

War is a part of real life, and DS9 was one of the first mainstream NSF, (Nautralistic Scifi) show.

Last edited by The Forge : 05-09-2009 at 05:56 PM.
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  #139  
Old 05-09-2009, 08:08 PM
beammeupscottie beammeupscottie is offline
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Hi all, not new to S.T.world just have been unable to visit site.....I Love DS9, to me in all of the series to date, this series shows the most humanity. we really see the growth of all the characters. Not since T.N.G.(IMO) have we seen such development. It was much darker than any of the others,more gritty and raw. I must say I love all of the series for their diversity. I think Gene would have loved DS91
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