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  #101  
Old 04-02-2009, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Absolutely, but isn't the fact that our choices could have adverse effects on the future a reality for everyone? I mean, that's true in everyday life. Doesn't stop people from trying to advance their agendas.
A haphazard approach considering Nero's goal.
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  #102  
Old 04-02-2009, 01:31 PM
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A haphazard approach considering Nero's goal.
What other approach could he possibly take though? Once he goes back, all bets are off for all involved? He has a distinct advantage over everyone except Old Spock because he knows how things were supposed to turn out.
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  #103  
Old 04-02-2009, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
What other approach could he possibly take though? Once he goes back, all bets are off for all involved? He has a distinct advantage over everyone except Old Spock because he knows how things were supposed to turn out.
Exactly, good point, Tom.

Nero has the advantage because he knows the history of how things 'went' in his ancient past -- rather like us in the States knowing how the Civil War turns out, etc.

Nero also had the advantage of knowing HE is the agent of change in this universe, so he still has the upper hand over everyone... including Nimoy-Spock, who can only follow Nero's actions and changes.

Nero can also more easily chart the changes he makes (Spock too, perhaps) because most of the changes caused by Nero will be "local" to Nero and his actions, at least in galactic terms. Think of it as a ripple effect, with himself at the center -- all changes emanate from his position and so he has the best view of them. Everyone else is reacting after the fact.

Here's why I think Nero ends up in prison for a while: in storytelling terms, this both limits his ability to make changes (which simplifies understanding in the story), and it takes him 'out of the loop' for a while to let Starfleet, Kirk and Spock time to 'catch up' to Nero's technology (which makes for a somewhat fairer fight later on). This prevents an easy win for Nero, whose Borg-modified ship could easily wipe out all foes upon first arrival, and it limits his knowledge of this new universe so he too must regain his grip on the galaxy when he escapes. And logically, it gives Jim Kirk and the rest of the crew time to 'grow up' and into their positions in Starfleet/the Academy.

In effect, Nero sitting out a few rounds means this fight will go the distance, and not be a KO in round 2.
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  #104  
Old 04-02-2009, 07:08 PM
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what else can be said?
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  #105  
Old 04-02-2009, 07:15 PM
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I think people are putting way to much emphasis on Nero's abilities to manipulate events in the timeline. If he can, why is he letting Kirk exist at all?
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  #106  
Old 04-02-2009, 07:47 PM
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Well anyone can have a huge effect on a time line. Killing even a single animal in the past can have repercussions on the future. It doesn't take special abilities to influence the future once you are in the past. And he didn't stop Kirk from existing in the first place because....
countdown spoiler (again)
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  #107  
Old 04-03-2009, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
Exactly, good point, Tom.

Nero has the advantage because he knows the history of how things 'went' in his ancient past -- rather like us in the States knowing how the Civil War turns out, etc.

Nero also had the advantage of knowing HE is the agent of change in this universe, so he still has the upper hand over everyone... including Nimoy-Spock, who can only follow Nero's actions and changes.

Nero can also more easily chart the changes he makes (Spock too, perhaps) because most of the changes caused by Nero will be "local" to Nero and his actions, at least in galactic terms. Think of it as a ripple effect, with himself at the center -- all changes emanate from his position and so he has the best view of them. Everyone else is reacting after the fact.

Here's why I think Nero ends up in prison for a while: in storytelling terms, this both limits his ability to make changes (which simplifies understanding in the story), and it takes him 'out of the loop' for a while to let Starfleet, Kirk and Spock time to 'catch up' to Nero's technology (which makes for a somewhat fairer fight later on). This prevents an easy win for Nero, whose Borg-modified ship could easily wipe out all foes upon first arrival, and it limits his knowledge of this new universe so he too must regain his grip on the galaxy when he escapes. And logically, it gives Jim Kirk and the rest of the crew time to 'grow up' and into their positions in Starfleet/the Academy.

In effect, Nero sitting out a few rounds means this fight will go the distance, and not be a KO in round 2.
That all sounds totally reasonable.

The only things it makes me wonder is -

If Nero has the Borg modified Narada, how do those era Klingons capture him?

Where does the Narada go or get stored between his capture and escape? Do the Klingons have it, or is it only Nero they somehow capture. Does the ship get away?

If the ship gets away, where does she hide for 20 years and what does the crew do? How can they know when he'll ever escape etc?

I'm not pressing for any answers as such, it just makes me wonder how the film will address such things.
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  #108  
Old 04-03-2009, 08:34 AM
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Just got my Countdown tpb. I'm a happy man. It's getting so close. The insane extreme enthusiasm I've kept reigned in is starting to seep thru beyond my control. There's a leak in the dyke, the levy's going to break and the dam's about to burst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #109  
Old 04-03-2009, 08:37 AM
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Has anyone here who is from Europe received the TPB yet? I ordered it on amazon, but they give Apr 29 as the shipping date (obviously outdated).
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  #110  
Old 04-03-2009, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by That Metal Beastie View Post
Just got my Countdown tpb. I'm a happy man. It's getting so close. The insane extreme enthusiasm I've kept reigned in is starting to seep thru beyond my control. There's a leak in the dyke, the levy's going to break and the dam's about to burst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, somebody's excited...

Enjoy it! It's a good read for sure.
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