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  #61  
Old 01-31-2009, 04:40 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Saint does have a point. From what I have seen and read, it appears to me that JJ and co. didn't really make any sort of real effort to adhere to the established rules and continuity of Star Trek. And I may be wrong, but I've just got a wierd feeling he did it on purpose just to show us die-hard fans that he didn't have to do anything to please us. Star Trek fans have for quite a while been considered "nerdy" and outcasts. He didn't want to associate himself with that kind of fanbase since he was a bigtime producer (in my opinion). He basically wants to show us die-hards that this is his movie and he can do whatever the heck he wants to with Star Trek because Paramount has given him their blessing along with $150M bucks. That is why the bridge and the Enterprise herself are so radically different from what was established in TOS. I would not feel this way had JJ and co. decided to keep the ship and bridge closer in appearance to what we know from TOS. Nor would I feel this way had JJ and co. come clean at the very beginning with a statement that this was going to be a complete reboot and that it was not meant to be an accurate representation of the Star Trek that we all know. Nor would I feel this way if he didn't say things like he went into this movie to break the rules, and he's making this movie for fans of movies, not fans of Star Trek, and he's a Star Wars fan, and didn't know much about Star Trek, and fans will hate him no matter what, and we didn't use TOS as a guide, etc. etc. He keeps saying things like that and it just makes him sound more and more line a school bully going na na na na na na! I don't have to do what you say!!! Cause the teacher told me I could do so-and-so. It just irritates me. Sorry. But that's just how I feel about it. Again, I am basing all my opinions and predictions on the scant photos, trailers, and interviews that have been shown to us. When I see the movie, I may feel differently. But as of now, given what is available. My opinions stand.

Last edited by I-Am-Zim : 01-31-2009 at 04:44 AM.
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  #62  
Old 01-31-2009, 04:45 AM
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Dominus of Megadeus Dominus of Megadeus is offline
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[Originally Posted by Kukalaka] More and more, as I read the comments of you and Starbase regarding the new film, I can't help but notice you two sound like you've had your girlfriends leave you for more interesting partners when talking about the franchise.[/quote]



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Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
Dude, we can stay away from bullcrap like that okay? Let's not target people's personal lives, especially negatively, in this discussion.

Agreed. Disagree with the opinion. Don't attack the person.
You seem to be a pretty cool kat, Kukalaka. The Cap'n, I'm sure, will give you only 1 demerit. :0)

Last edited by Dominus of Megadeus : 01-31-2009 at 04:49 AM.
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  #63  
Old 01-31-2009, 05:01 AM
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Part 2
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/hero...rek-dir-1.html

Best parts:
"This is not "Star Wars" which happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. This is us and our future."
"I watched episodes, I read up a lot, I watched the movies, I talked to people, whether it was our "Trek" consultant or one of the two writers about what it would mean to do what we wanted to do."
"We could make sure it passed the test of the ultimate fan and the ultimate neophyte and make sure that it was equally entertaining to both parties."
"I mean we're still finishing up this movie." (He did say that it was finished some days ago?!)
"But the beauty of what Roddenberry created is there is such an abundance of opportunities with these characters and [deciding] which elements of the original series we want to revisit. There's this great opportunity there for further stories and I would definitely be involved in that. Whether I'm directing or producing, whether Bob or Alex are writing, obviously all that remains to be seen. Paramount is hungry to get going on that, but we're still finishing up the first one."
"As a kid, "Star Wars" was much more my thing than "Star Trek" was. If you look at the last three "Star Wars" films and what technology allowed them to do, they covered so much terrain in terms of design, locations, characters, aliens, ships -- so much of the spectacle has been done and it seems like every aspect has been covered, whether it's geography or design of culture or weather system or character or ship type. Everything has been tapped in those movies. The challenge of doing "Star Trek" -- despite the fact that it existed before "Star Wars" -- is that we are clearly in the shadow of what George Lucas has done."
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Last edited by NCC-73515 : 01-31-2009 at 05:19 AM.
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  #64  
Old 01-31-2009, 06:06 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Sure, he watched episodes. He watched the movies. He talked to "consultants". Etc. Etc. Yet he still completely redesigned the Star Trek universe as we know it. They are supposed to be revisiting TOS. Therefore, logically speaking, it should look like TOS, albeit and updated version of TOS. The Abramsprise and iBridge don't look like TOS. It doesn't look to me like watching the episodes and movies, or talking to consultants swayed JJ's plan to do whatever he wanted to do with Star Trek despite the 40 years, 79 episodes, and 6 movies of established history and continuity within the Star Trek universe.
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  #65  
Old 01-31-2009, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominus of Megadeus View Post
Agreed. Disagree with the opinion. Don't attack the person.
You seem to be a pretty cool kat, Kukalaka. The Cap'n, I'm sure, will give you only 1 demerit. :0)
I agree, but please can people remember, the film makers are people as well as members of the forum. Attacking their integrity or calling them dumb, lazy or whatever is not the same as disliking their work or their artistic choices. Some people are genuinely inept. ILM are not in this group, nor is JJ Abrams. Dislike his work by all means, but he's good at what he does. If it was me working on this film I wouldn't be looking at this forum at all because of some of the unpleasant and personal comments made about the film makers. After all, these people are actually trying to entertain you, they haven't killed anyone!
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  #66  
Old 01-31-2009, 07:04 AM
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I concur.
Personal insults are not necessary.
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  #67  
Old 01-31-2009, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribbler View Post
I agree, but please can people remember, the film makers are people as well as members of the forum. Attacking their integrity or calling them dumb, lazy or whatever is not the same as disliking their work or their artistic choices. Some people are genuinely inept. ILM are not in this group, nor is JJ Abrams. Dislike his work by all means, but he's good at what he does. If it was me working on this film I wouldn't be looking at this forum at all because of some of the unpleasant and personal comments made about the film makers. After all, these people are actually trying to entertain you, they haven't killed anyone!
Well said, Scribbler. JJA is a geek, he has worked in TV and in certain franchises so he knows pretty well how some of us feel.
Dislike for his artistic effort and normal critique is one thing, claiming he is lazy or insulting fans by not making the Trek they want is another. Kinda the point where 'fan' regresses to 'fanatic' and decent manners go out of the airlock.
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  #68  
Old 01-31-2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Sure, he watched episodes. He watched the movies. He talked to "consultants". Etc. Etc. Yet he still completely redesigned the Star Trek universe as we know it. They are supposed to be revisiting TOS. Therefore, logically speaking, it should look like TOS, albeit and updated version of TOS. The Abramsprise and iBridge don't look like TOS. It doesn't look to me like watching the episodes and movies, or talking to consultants swayed JJ's plan to do whatever he wanted to do with Star Trek despite the 40 years, 79 episodes, and 6 movies of established history and continuity within the Star Trek universe.
There's a difference between remaining true to what's come before and being enslaved to all that has come before.

Orci and Kurtzman created a loophole to tell a more cinematic origin story without breaking or invalidating what has come before: Alternate Universe created by events I would mark with *spoiler*.

This movie is not a STRICT reboot, nor is it the ORIGINAL origin story.

It is AN origin story, with changes made for the sake of a better movie, and to jettison that which simply would not work on the big screen.

Personally, I like the visual changes I've seen so far (I know many don't), and their merits can be debated.

But the in story continuity revealed so far actually makes sense.

They have to walk a very fine line between being true to the original material and creating something new to keep Star Trek alive.

A very tall order, but it looks like it may just work.

There have been so many things that break continuity both visually and story wise in Star Trek. Khan knows Chekov? Was the Enterprise under Starfleet or the United Earth Space Probe Agency? Did Starfleet make an incredible change of style throughout the entire Federation in the space of 5 years from TOS to TMP?

Nicholas Meyer likens Star Trek to the Catholic Mass in Music. There are so many different ways to present it, but the text is still the same.

Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the Enterprise, Starfleet etc., are there. They look different, but they are there.

A new interpretation of the Catholic Mass. No less valid than any of the other interpretations.
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  #69  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Sure, he watched episodes. He watched the movies. He talked to "consultants". Etc. Etc. Yet he still completely redesigned the Star Trek universe as we know it. They are supposed to be revisiting TOS. Therefore, logically speaking, it should look like TOS, albeit and updated version of TOS. The Abramsprise and iBridge don't look like TOS. It doesn't look to me like watching the episodes and movies, or talking to consultants swayed JJ's plan to do whatever he wanted to do with Star Trek despite the 40 years, 79 episodes, and 6 movies of established history and continuity within the Star Trek universe.
Again, to you. Which is fine, but not relevant to us all.
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  #70  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
Part 2
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/hero...rek-dir-1.html

Best parts:
"This is not "Star Wars" which happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. This is us and our future."
"I watched episodes, I read up a lot, I watched the movies, I talked to people, whether it was our "Trek" consultant or one of the two writers about what it would mean to do what we wanted to do."
"We could make sure it passed the test of the ultimate fan and the ultimate neophyte and make sure that it was equally entertaining to both parties."
"I mean we're still finishing up this movie." (He did say that it was finished some days ago?!)
"But the beauty of what Roddenberry created is there is such an abundance of opportunities with these characters and [deciding] which elements of the original series we want to revisit. There's this great opportunity there for further stories and I would definitely be involved in that. Whether I'm directing or producing, whether Bob or Alex are writing, obviously all that remains to be seen. Paramount is hungry to get going on that, but we're still finishing up the first one."
"As a kid, "Star Wars" was much more my thing than "Star Trek" was. If you look at the last three "Star Wars" films and what technology allowed them to do, they covered so much terrain in terms of design, locations, characters, aliens, ships -- so much of the spectacle has been done and it seems like every aspect has been covered, whether it's geography or design of culture or weather system or character or ship type. Everything has been tapped in those movies. The challenge of doing "Star Trek" -- despite the fact that it existed before "Star Wars" -- is that we are clearly in the shadow of what George Lucas has done."
Which is what I always took him to mean when he talked about about Star Wars and getting that feeling over and into Trek. Not about morphing the central ideas of Trek into a Wars style, but taking that vast visual scope and giving Trek that same visual treatment, married to the Trek story style.
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