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  #21  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:03 PM
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Saquist Saquist is offline
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ah,

but meyers did that on purpose. THe only two battles in the old movies were in two and six. He designed two, to be like to subs manuvering for firing solutions against each other so he placed it in a nebula where they could see each other and also had to slow down to make out what's ahead.

I also acount for this two by observing how small the impulse engines were back then. the Sovereign and the Defiant have engines that are enormous in comparison.


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lol...yes there is alway good ol' option three...But isn't there an option 3-A..where as if the is bad you are to take it out back and soak ith in gasoline. Burn it in ephigy and stomp the smoldering ashes into the ground ...screaming the mantra: Bad film go away...bonk bonk?
I'm keeping that one.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:09 PM
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Exactly, I prefer that, it makes the ships seem enormous and weighty, gives them real gravitas. Technically I suppose there's nothing wrong with the Enterprise whipping around with all the technology in Trek and all, but I prefer to see the ships moving slower and engaging in battle like massive warships. Let the defiant class vessels and other smaller ships do the dog fighting.

Even in DS9, during the huge space battles, it were the smaller Jem'hadar ships and the Defiant, Klingon birds of prey that would whip around the capital Cardassian and Dominion ships. It made more sense to me.

However the Enterprise E did look more streamlined and fighter like than the previous Enterprises so it doesn't look as odd, but seeing a constitution class ship whip around with great maneuverability, it just doesn't seem right to me, doesn't look right. And I can't think of any time you really saw it except maybe in 'In a Mirror, Darkly' from Enterprise and even then it moved relatively in a straight line but much faster than seen before.

Another thing that made those ships look huge is how they shot it. The models were huge and you could get a camera really close. Now it's mostly CGI so you can do anything, present it anyway, which I think is a reason why you get these more fast and dynamic battles.

Was the Enterprise in FC CGI or model? Can't remember the first time we had a CGI Enteprise.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:12 PM
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I have to say I agree with you....I would preer to the slower style
but....I also make allowance for this faster pace just so we could reall get a young audience that likes the quicker pace. I don't want to give everything up for that younger audience but this I would.
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:20 PM
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I tend to see Space-bourn battle as the old gallion ships at sea, took tremendous effort to manuever them but they were an awsome sight when pounding away at the enemy. Kinda the way the battle was in TWOK.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2009, 09:41 PM
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I do, too, Cap'n Mouse! I'm just wired weird, but I view motion pictures as "audio/visual literature." Each artist brings their own vision to the piece. Again, you and I haven't seen the film yet, but we do have an open mind, and as Trekkers, we are optimistic.

Everyone to his own opinion. My opinion is that it should be a pretty good movie.
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominus of Megadeus View Post
I do, too, Cap'n Mouse! I'm just wired weird, but I view motion pictures as "audio/visual literature." Each artist brings their own vision to the piece. Again, you and I haven't seen the film yet, but we do have an open mind, and as Trekkers, we are optimistic.

Everyone to his own opinion. My opinion is that it should be a pretty good movie.
I agree completely.
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2009, 03:08 PM
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Slow/ fast- what's important to me is strategy. It adds to the drama if a battle scene is tactically well thought out, and it adds to the intelligence of the film. I appreciated the E's strafing tactic in Nemesis to sniff out the Scimitar- if nothing else.
JJs challenge as far as I'm concerned is to present an intelligent movie even if it does stray too far on the action side. Star Trek at it's best= assuming its audience is smart and up for a challenge.
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingston View Post
Exactly, I prefer that, it makes the ships seem enormous and weighty, gives them real gravitas. Technically I suppose there's nothing wrong with the Enterprise whipping around with all the technology in Trek and all, but I prefer to see the ships moving slower and engaging in battle like massive warships. Let the defiant class vessels and other smaller ships do the dog fighting.

Even in DS9, during the huge space battles, it were the smaller Jem'hadar ships and the Defiant, Klingon birds of prey that would whip around the capital Cardassian and Dominion ships. It made more sense to me.

However the Enterprise E did look more streamlined and fighter like than the previous Enterprises so it doesn't look as odd, but seeing a constitution class ship whip around with great maneuverability, it just doesn't seem right to me, doesn't look right. And I can't think of any time you really saw it except maybe in 'In a Mirror, Darkly' from Enterprise and even then it moved relatively in a straight line but much faster than seen before.

Another thing that made those ships look huge is how they shot it. The models were huge and you could get a camera really close. Now it's mostly CGI so you can do anything, present it anyway, which I think is a reason why you get these more fast and dynamic battles.

Was the Enterprise in FC CGI or model? Can't remember the first time we had a CGI Enteprise.
The first CGI Enterprise was actually in Generations, one of the shots where the ship went to warp, but FC used a model/CGI combination. Insurrection was all CGI, Nemesis used mostly CGI but a saucer model for the Scimitar collision.

I think that the ships have to be presented as the massive objects that they are, but I don't think it precludes them from having some level of agility when they are required to enter into battle. I think the new film will just try and balance that out.

The slow battles in TWOK worked because the first was initially a friendly approach and the second was in a nebula where sensors and visuals were also intermittent, so the ships had to go slower. They couldn't see quite where they were going. In open space we might have seen more fluid sequences.
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