The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > I come as an Emissary to canonistas and revisionists...
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #171  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:19 AM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
THAT'S MY POINT!!!!!

The problem is that many movie critics today have become cynical and unforgiving towards recent scifi movies when they lack science and even say things like "it seems entertainment was more important than truly representing science". Meanwhile, scifi movies that are listed as "great" make even more science mistakes.

"Suspend belief" has become some sort of joke. Now the only safe scifi scenerio is a doctor giving a patient a prescription for medicine. Anything less mundane than that it's time for the supercynics to put on their capes and destroy the movie.

Criticisms about Star Trek XI seem to be a perfect example. People complaining that Star Trek XI is misrepresenting science for the sake of entertainment when that's what ALL THE STAR TREK MOVIES HAVE BEEN DOING.

You're right! It's entertainment. Time to put away the Science Weekly magazines, buy some popcorn and size large colas, sit back and watch the movie.
But they must be right.
The films have suffered from a lack of realism and good story lines. In other words they've failed to come off as possible.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:21 AM
MigueldaRican's Avatar
MigueldaRican MigueldaRican is offline
Lieutenant Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
But they must be right.
The films have suffered from a lack of realism and good story lines. In other words they've failed to come off as possible.
So you don't like the movies at all then?
__________________
01001110011011110010000001101101011011110111001001 10010100100000011000100110110001100001011010000010 00000110001001101100011000010110100000100000011000 10011011000110000101101000
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:41 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
I have no problem with those episdoes.
I like social and scientific.
It's obvious some individuals just like drama.
Yes, because it's through the drama of events that happen that the bare bones of a character becomes a person on the show, with a history, with desires, interests, traumas, forced to make choices etc that humanises them. And makes them people we are supposed to care about. Otherwise they are just cyphers spouting lines explaining what an event horizon is.

Quote:
9 of the first season episodes are scientific in nature while tackling social issues 12 if you count certain other ones.

The second Season is 11 out of 26
The third Season is 18 of 25 episodes science fiction in there very nature. The amount of pure social issues or controversial issues is low. Social issues of war are quite predominant in the Early Trek.

It seems mostly science fiction. That's mostly why I tune in.
Then it sounds like there's enough to keep you happy while others look for something different.

Quote:
I can't disagreee
Science Fiction is a bit of a contradiction.
The whole concept is to show how the world has become better. Social issues aren't a major concern. Note that Trend in the original series. Everyone else had the issues not the Federation.
And those other races were supposed to resemble facets of Earth in the 1960s - which is the commentary part. Not necessarily with an agenda attached, just enough to make people think on some things.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:10 AM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
So you don't like the movies at all then?
Almost none...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Yes, because it's through the drama of events that happen that the bare bones of a character becomes a person on the show, with a history, with desires, interests, traumas, forced to make choices etc that humanises them. And makes them people we are supposed to care about. Otherwise they are just cyphers spouting lines explaining what an event horizon is.
Note quite the same kinda drama
Note how star trek tends to stay away from drama...meaning squabbling and shouting matches. Trek is adult intellectual viewing.



Quote:
Then it sounds like there's enough to keep you happy while others look for something different.
Indeed.


Quote:
And those other races were supposed to resemble facets of Earth in the 1960s - which is the commentary part. Not necessarily with an agenda attached, just enough to make people think on some things.
And that's the popular place of science fiction. It doesn't promote...at least not trek.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:15 AM
MigueldaRican's Avatar
MigueldaRican MigueldaRican is offline
Lieutenant Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Almost none...
Looking over all this, it sounds like you're really only a fan of TOS.
__________________
01001110011011110010000001101101011011110111001001 10010100100000011000100110110001100001011010000010 00000110001001101100011000010110100000100000011000 10011011000110000101101000
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:21 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Note quite the same kinda drama
Note how star trek tends to stay away from drama...meaning squabbling and shouting matches. Trek is adult intellectual viewing.
It is, and there's still room for drama in there. But adult drama isn't automatically 'screaming or shouting' only or 'I love her, why doesn't she love me back' - I'd rather have episodes with dialouge exchanges that let us into our characters like that of Robert and Jean-Luc in 'Family', or verbal duets such as between Jean-luc and Norah Satie, or even better the terrific verbal duel between Dukat and Sisko in 'Waltz' (to name but a few) alongside a 5 minute explanation of Heisenberg compensators or Warp theory than solely either. I like both those elements.

Quote:
And that's the popular place of science fiction. It doesn't promote...at least not trek.
But it can ask us to think about both.
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:23 AM
MrQ1701's Avatar
MrQ1701 MrQ1701 is offline
Vice Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Espanola, New Mexico
Posts: 3,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Trek is adult intellectual viewing..
I like the way you put this. I agree
__________________
To secure the peace is to prepare for war. -Metallica
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:25 AM
MrQ1701's Avatar
MrQ1701 MrQ1701 is offline
Vice Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Espanola, New Mexico
Posts: 3,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
Looking over all this, it sounds like you're really only a fan of TOS.
I've have accused Saq of the very same thing. It's easy to make that assumption based on many (if not MOST) of his posts, but I have learned after many many back and forth discussions, he actually likes more of Trek than he lets on.
__________________
To secure the peace is to prepare for war. -Metallica
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:42 AM
LTJG Iferal's Avatar
LTJG Iferal LTJG Iferal is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
This is entertainment, not science class. You want realism, watch the Discovery channel. You want excitement and adventure, watch a movie.
So what does this say about that whole "unbalanced/symmetrical/aerospace/thrust correction debate we had?
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 12-05-2008, 02:21 PM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
It is, and there's still room for drama in there. But adult drama isn't automatically 'screaming or shouting' only or 'I love her, why doesn't she love me back' -
I beg to differ.
Drama in television always comes down to those factors. That's why House, Boston Public, Desperate House Wives, ER, Grey's Anatomy win awards for Best Drama. Drama often involves deep emotional Brick-wall issues. Trek doesn't do that.


Quote:

I'd rather have episodes with dialouge exchanges that let us into our characters like that of Robert and Jean-Luc in 'Family', or verbal duets such as between Jean-luc and Norah Satie, or even better the terrific verbal duel between Dukat and Sisko in 'Waltz' (to name but a few) alongside a 5 minute explanation of Heisenberg compensators or Warp theory than solely either. I like both those elements.
My point exactly.
Trek "Drama", if you can call it that is witty and well thought out. It fits with the plot, It's not just there to make you FEEL. It's there to make you UNDERSTAND.

Drumhead.

Norah Satie practically commisioned the Enterprise. Here we have Picard's RESPECTED senior officer conducting witch hunts onboard his ship. Picard is caught between his respect for his Commander and the respect and protection of his crew.....and perhaps even ego.

Can you imagine being in that situation. That's the WOMAN...that put you in command. She recommended you and she's hunting down your crew. Her methods ...questionable. But are they questionable because of your own ego. Is it about that she's going after YOUR crew or is there something wrong with the Admiral? How do you even begining to address it and how far does it go before you call it all to and end....and perhaps at the risk of your command?

When Satie Yells out " I've brought down bigger men than you Picard!"

As the Admirals behind her walked out of the room after the outburst...you knew that they knew....this woman wasn't right. And as Picard's gaze drops away you can tell that he knows too. The tension...seemed to break that had been building for 5 Acts.

It was perfect. It was Drama for the sake of the Plot.

Darmok was the same way.
I've never felt more exhilerated when Picard walked onto that Bridge and held the knife out and said. "Darmok, and Jalad... at Tanagra!"

I thought "wow"...he understands. And the Captain died just to get Picard to understand his language. Amazing.


Quote:
But it can ask us to think about both.
That's why Trek Drama is often superior to soap drama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
Looking over all this, it sounds like you're really only a fan of TOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
I've have accused Saq of the very same thing. It's easy to make that assumption based on many (if not MOST) of his posts, but I have learned after many many back and forth discussions, he actually likes more of Trek than he lets on.
MrQ1701 is observant.
I do like most of Trek. (series wise) I have lots of nitpicks. Some matter, some don't but I have always held trek to a high standard. For the last 15 years Trek has sunk bellow the standard set by the Next Generation.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:33 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.