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  #11  
Old 12-01-2008, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
Is this just the only way you can see the end of the movie happening or something? I mean, there hasn't been any clue that Pike dies.
Not to mention that TOS absolutely contradicts that Pike dies. The transfer of Enterprise command is a standard move after Pike's final five-year mission.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2008, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sybock View Post
Thank you so much, it was great finding out more about Capt. Pike. Really sad that Jeffrey Hunter died before he could play pike again. Interesting that he passed on the role after the first pilot but I can't Imagine Shatner not being on TOS and I'm glad he was Kirk and not recast as Pike.
The backstory on that is: Hunter's wife didn't want him taking the role because until that point, Jeff was known for doing movies, and she wanted him to continue in that vein (she thought TV was beneath him). Unfortunately, that is what led to his demise. He died of a cerebral hemorrhage after hitting head during a stunt on a movie set.

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Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
I have a bad feeling that Pike is going to die in Star Trek XI. Any thoughts on this?
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Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
Not to mention that TOS absolutely contradicts that Pike dies. The transfer of Enterprise command is a standard move after Pike's final five-year mission.

I don't think we can use TOS history to predict what happens in this movie anymore. I hope he doesn't, because that would completely invalidate not just one, but 2 TOS episodes. At this point, I'd be disappointed but not surprised.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:01 PM
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I don't think we can use TOS history to predict what happens in this movie anymore. I hope he doesn't, because that would completely invalidate not just one, but 2 TOS episodes. At this point, I'd be disappointed but not surprised.
Possibly, but now that boils down to opinion of what this film will or won't be. My point was only to illustrate there is nothing in TOS which "insists" Pike dies during the film, and quite the contrary is feasible with attention to a few historical points from TOS.

The film may dismiss some canon, we'll see... but I am not proceeding from the assumption that it will and must dismiss canon, so I can still see many possibilities.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
Not to mention that TOS absolutely contradicts that Pike dies. The transfer of Enterprise command is a standard move after Pike's final five-year mission.
Right...but the point is that it's possible for the MOVIE (which shows Kirk and Pike on the same bridge) to be canon.

Kirk clearly states that he didn't meet Pike until he was promoted to Fleet Captain.


MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.


Note that according to Mendez, Kirk and Pike are about the same age..so, the fast track for Kirk has a lot of traction.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
I have a bad feeling that Pike is going to die in Star Trek XI. Any thoughts on this?
I hope not. Bruce Greenwood is a fantastic actor and Pike is a great character. Kirk is way too young to take command if Pike died so I hope there is more about himin future films.
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  #16  
Old 12-02-2008, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
Right...but the point is that it's possible for the MOVIE (which shows Kirk and Pike on the same bridge) to be canon.

Kirk clearly states that he didn't meet Pike until he was promoted to Fleet Captain.


MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.


Note that according to Mendez, Kirk and Pike are about the same age..so, the fast track for Kirk has a lot of traction.
A lot of people come back to those two/three lines of dialogue as problematic that they can't be in the film together, but I think there's enough leeway in there to account for expansion of the history. It maybe depends on how each of us individually rationalise things, and this is just mine, but if Mendez had said 'Is that the only time you met Chris Pike' and Kirk had answered 'Yes', I could see the greater difficulty.

Though it's possible their age difference might be spaced out a little more than Mendez suggested.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:44 AM
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We now pause for this brief message.

Here's one for the canon nazis: Seems like I remember that one of Pike's Talosian fantasies was of being "an Orion trader dealing in green animal women." No one ever said the women were Orions, but everyone calls them that. If they are Orions, why isn't Pike green too? Why is that, ya think?

Now, back to our program.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2008, 07:00 AM
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Canon has been both the blessing and bane of Star Trek since the days of the original series. Interpreting it has almost become as intricate as legal debate or an argument before the Supreme Court. Precedents are set and canon becomes increasingly more flexible as time goes on...and even more often, convoluted.

I do, however, feel that there is a lot of creative room in canon in which to tell a very compelling Star Trek story without trampling needlessly.

However, the reality at the end of the day that trumps all this is the simple cold hard fact that Star Trek is ultimately a revenue generating multimedia property, and as such, the owner, to their benefit or detriment, can exploit it as they will.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
Right...but the point is that it's possible for the MOVIE (which shows Kirk and Pike on the same bridge) to be canon.

Kirk clearly states that he didn't meet Pike until he was promoted to Fleet Captain.


MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.


Note that according to Mendez, Kirk and Pike are about the same age..so, the fast track for Kirk has a lot of traction.
Works for me! Though Greenwood and Pine hardly seem the same age as actors. That aside, I agree there are various ways to interweave Pike's and Kirk's careers and commands in the 'untold' missions between them and Kirk getting command of the E.

Hey, maybe that's why O&K decided to tell their story in this span of TREK history, right?!
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2008, 06:27 PM
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The funny thing about that whole Kirk/Mendez dialogue is that Mendez asks Kirk if he's ever met Pike, to which Kirk says, "Yes" and then Mendez continues to describe Pike for Kirk, who should be well aware from even one meeting of Pike's relative age to him, and have some sense of his personality.
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