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Old 11-28-2008, 08:40 AM
TAReber TAReber is offline
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Default Tos vs new movie discussion

I'm going off of memory but from what I can remember, kirk stated he was 33 years old in them middle of his 5 year mission. The menagerie stated captain Christopher pike's accident was 15 years earlier where Spock was under his command at least 15 years ago. Which means kirk would have been around 18 years old at the time captain Pike lost command of the enterprise due to the accident. Does this mean another captain for the enterprise existed in between captain pike and captain kirk? Furthermore, the ship being built in the trailer could not have been the Starship Enterprise.

Will Finigan be in the movie, kirks star fleet bully?
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:50 AM
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A couple of points:

Pike did not lose command of the Enterprise due to his accident. That happened roughly two years into Kirk's mission, sometime around 2266. Pike had already left the Enterprise and Kirk took over command after Pike's final five-year mission and a refit of the E.

And Pike's accident was aboard an entirely different ship -- I don't think it was ever named, just that it was a J-class vessel.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:14 PM
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STNV Episode 'In Harm's Way' shows the background for Pike's injury
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TAReber View Post
I'm going off of memory but from what I can remember, kirk stated he was 33 years old in them middle of his 5 year mission. The menagerie stated captain Christopher pike's accident was 15 years earlier where Spock was under his command at least 15 years ago. Which means kirk would have been around 18 years old at the time captain Pike lost command of the enterprise due to the accident. Does this mean another captain for the enterprise existed in between captain pike and captain kirk? Furthermore, the ship being built in the trailer could not have been the Starship Enterprise.

Will Finigan be in the movie, kirks star fleet bully?
All your points are very valid in my mind. Unfortunately, this movie warps (no pun intended) history to such a degree that I couldn't begin to explain it. My understanding is that the incident on Talos IV took place 13 years before the events in The Menagerie, during which Spock was on board, not as 1st officer, I would guess a lieutenant or so. At the same time, Kirk would have been about 20 and probably in the middle of his academy training. Checkov should have been in grade school at that point. Kirk should have been born in 2233, making him a pre-teen when the Enterprise was first launched, so yeah, I would think that the shiip appearing in the trailer should NOT be the Enterprise..... (John Belushi imitation) but NOOoooo... Everything's different now.

After seeing everything we've already been shown, I'd be shocked it details such as Finnegan and Gary Mitchell were even contemplated.


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STNV Episode 'In Harm's Way' shows the background for Pike's injury
Yeah- great episode. Though I think the episode was called "Come What May." I think it happened on board a Cadet/training ship because those were the ones who Pike saved by his actions.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:56 PM
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No, "In Harm's Way" is the NV episode with Pike.

"Come What May" is the pilot with the er herm....Borg ship.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:57 PM
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Come What May was the pilot (with a Borg pyramid).
Update: One minute too late
I LOVE the flashforward scenes in the transporter room!!! That's the great part of that pilot
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:08 PM
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All your points are very valid in my mind. Unfortunately, this movie warps (no pun intended) history to such a degree that I couldn't begin to explain it. My understanding is that the incident on Talos IV took place 13 years before the events in The Menagerie, during which Spock was on board, not as 1st officer, I would guess a lieutenant or so. At the same time, Kirk would have been about 20 and probably in the middle of his academy training. Checkov should have been in grade school at that point. Kirk should have been born in 2233, making him a pre-teen when the Enterprise was first launched, so yeah, I would think that the ship appearing in the trailer should NOT be the Enterprise..... (John Belushi imitation) but NOOoooo... Everything's different now.

After seeing everything we've already been shown, I'd be shocked it details such as Finnegan and Gary Mitchell were even contemplated.
Yep, I totally agree. Spock should have served about 11 years under Captain Pike, originally as a junior science officer, before James Kirk ever showed up. Pike's First Officer was Number One. And Sulu was in astrosciences. And the Medical Officer was Dr. Boyce, not McCoy. (Hell, if you wanted to get really techincal, Dr. Piper was in between there too - after Boyce in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" before McCoy arrived) And there was no Uhura or Chekov either.

But like you said...NOOoooo...Everything's different now. It's magic - the old team just magically gets dropped in there all together at the same time! So don't expect Finnegan, Gary Mitchell, or anyone else. Like I keep getting told, they take great pride in telling us "This ain't your father's Star Trek."

But don't start complaining - you'll get yelled at for being a Canonist, Canonista, Loyalist, ar any number of other names for daring to invoke loyalty to all the stuff you used to know...

And I agree - I don't care what they say - that just isn't the Enterprise.

And it NEVER will be.
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:28 PM
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Now be sure to say all that really nicely, or you'll have a pack of polite wolves ravaging your guts, and believe me, takes more than Advil to deal with that.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:39 PM
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Now be sure to say all that really nicely, or you'll have a pack of polite wolves ravaging your guts, and believe me, takes more than Advil to deal with that.

I'm covered:
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:59 PM
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Well, like I had said in a different thread, when it comes to canon, even in the movies there were issues. One in particular I noticed when watching ST IV and ST V back to back. Obviously they don't use money in the 23rd century as pointed out by Kirk to Catherine Hick's character at the pizza joint and him having to pawn his glasses. However, when watching ST V during a scene in Paradise City there is a TV playing a commercial in the background advertising I think it was new homes and saying if you can get a federation loan. So if there is no money...why need a loan? Things like this will happen, and it's such a large following, and after40 yrs and so many shows and movies and books, I know Abrams just picked and chose from books and his own ideas more than anything b/c he did mention Orci and the writing team had 2 favorite books they took info out of.
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