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  #21  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:43 AM
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Zetseui welcome to Star Trek fandom. I have always loved Star Trek and Star Wars, but Star Trek has always been on a higher plateau for me, a very appealing future for humanity, a dream that could be reality. Star Wars is just pure fantasy and has no basis in our realty. But I am not here for a Star Trek Star Wars debate.

I am a huge fan of the Trek, I fallow the timeline, technological transitions, maps and territories in the Milky Way, these things are important to Star Trek because in a way I kind of add them to the future of our reality. So staying true to the Star Trek cannon is important.
Supposedly there was a time where we made a transition back to knobs and toggle switches in the 23 century. I look at it this way if star trek is a story being told like star wars “ a long long time ago” then this is how historians see the past and who knows how many mistakes could have been made. How well have we recounted our own history? What if someone from the year 4000 is looking back at the 23 century they are bound to get aspects of history wrong! Since time travel is also possible the past could be changed at any time. So there are many possibilities. As a Star Trek fan of 20 years I don’t like things changing too much which are etched in stone but I also keep an open mind. Bottom line…being conservative can just make me angry, which is why I am liberal and open to new ideas. When it comes to Star Trek I can be a purist but I am open, if I enjoy it then I enjoy it and I am not going to analyze the hell out of the new movie.
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  #22  
Old 11-26-2008, 05:06 PM
miles3347 miles3347 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zetseui View Post
I'm glad to hear that most fans wouldn't mind and almost would rather have upgraded visuals as long as the technology stays with the canon. I was afraid that a lot of fans would be turned off by something that is trying to appeal to the masses.
They had touchscreens keypads on the TOS they were on most of the consoles on the bridge and the transporter controls. They were in the place one would have a keyboard at a console.
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  #23  
Old 11-26-2008, 05:26 PM
miles3347 miles3347 is offline
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For me the biggest change from the TOS/next gen was the animated computer screens when video motors that could be synchronized to the cameras became inexpensive to be used on a large scale permanently on the show. Before that they would animate it in post production and it was rarely used.
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  #24  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:48 PM
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AJBlue98 AJBlue98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zetseui View Post
…I am going to mention Star Wars as well...their technology in the newer prequels were in a lot of ways superior to the technology in the older movies.…

…I would like to know from long time fans/trekkies/trekkers, whatever you consider yourself, what your thoughts on the subject are….
For me, Star Wars presented a unique story in which, even had the movies been made in story-chronological order, I would have expected the state of the art in episodes IV, V, and VI to look less advanced than that shown in episodes I, II, and III.

History shows us that as a dictatorship or other totalitarian form of governance matures, the ability of science to progress ultimately slows to a halt and in many cases begins to reverse. With a Sith emperor the ilk of Palpatine, whose control was absolute and who ultimately came to rule nearly exclusively through fear and intimidation, it would have been out-of-place to show the state of the art in science and technology in the oppressed Galactic Empire to be advanced beyond that of the free Galactic Republic.

Specifically, I think George Lucas and crew did a fantastic job of retconning the tech in episodes I, II, and III to make them look like “what episodes IV, V, and VI would have looked like had the toys been brand new.”

Personally, I think most in this forum have it backwards. The Enterprise from JJ’s new movie should look more detailed and “sharp” (as several have put it) than the Enterprise from TOS. When technology is new (as with the April-/Pike-era Constitution class), designs tend toward the more functional—more industrial—and only as technology matures (with the passage of twenty years and the beginning of Kirk’s captaincy) do designs begin to take on a simpler, more minimalist, more æsthetically pleasing form.

At any rate, in the Star Trek universe, while Federation members contribute to a common state of the art, each species brings its own advancements and shortcomings, and most importantly its own design ethic. Therefore, I’m willing to accept the design changes in the new movie as evidence of influence at Starfleet R&D shifting between peoples.

Last edited by AJBlue98 : 11-27-2008 at 12:02 AM. Reason: coherence, cohesiveness, and because I wrote the first draft at 2:30 and it's now 3 AM
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2008, 02:25 AM
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I'm all for new technology. I can't understand why people don't like better technology.
Because it's not supposed to be better, it's supposed to be older. If someone were to invent a time machine and you were to go back to 1934, you would not expect to see the cars of that era outperforming cars made in 2009. It would be effing stupid.
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  #26  
Old 11-27-2008, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darmok
Supposedly there was a time where we made a transition back to knobs and toggle switches in the 23 century.
A couple of reasons for that. Knobs and switches provide better tactile feedback, allowing you to look at things other than the controls when you operate them.

Considering the sheer, overwhelming amount of information you have to take in with your eyes, diverting your eyes away from that information and to the controls in order to operate them is just a Bad Idea. That's why all-touch keyboards haven't been implemented already -- touch typing is easy, but not if you don't know which keys your fingers are placed on... you know... by feeling the keys under your fingers.
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2008, 01:37 PM
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Our input systems consist of mouse and keyboard and touchscreen technology right now. Each of them has their advantages and disadvantages, but as technologic advances are prominent in the touchscreen era right now, it seems reasonable to portrait a similar technology, or at least similar looking technology, in sci-fi.
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  #28  
Old 11-27-2008, 03:04 PM
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Horatio, can you honestly tell me you'd be able to use a touchscreen input panel without looking at it to know where to put your fingers? And if you have to look at the input panel, you'd be missing information output to the displays, wouldn't you?
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  #29  
Old 11-27-2008, 09:04 PM
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You refer to touch keyboards which are inferior to conventional keyboards for the very reasons you mentioned, I refered to touchscreens. Their advantage seems to be faster input compared to a mouse while their disadvantage is the relatively large size of a human fingertip compared to a mouse pointer.

Last edited by horatio : 11-27-2008 at 09:17 PM.
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  #30  
Old 11-27-2008, 11:16 PM
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Actually, their advantage is being instantly reconfigurable via software, while their disadvantage, as I've mentioned twice already, is that there's no meaningful tactile feedback for differentiating one key from another or differentiating input areas from non-input areas without taking the user's visual focus away from information displays. You don't have to look at a conventional keyboard to orient your fingers on it or look at a physical switch, toggle or dial to know what position it's in. You do have to do that with virtualized control surfaces. I asked this already but I didn't see an answer from you:

Have you ever used a touch (or multitouch) interface you didn't have to look at?

The only reason for touch keyboards is that they look prettier. They're not only not more user-friendly, they're less user friendly.

Now as for touch or multi-touch displays, who says the ones on the classic TOS Enterprise can't have been that?
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