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  #11  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
I hope you're right.
May I ask purists like yourself or Saint: what is quintessential Trek for you?

For me, it is the paradigm of a bright future. Besides, I just wanna see a good story, like City on the Edge of Forever, an episode which many people consider one of the best of TOS. Interestingly there is not much of the Enterprise or its bridge to see during that show, just like in The Voyage Home.
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2008, 07:13 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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I believe the story is central to the overall mythos of Trek. However, the technology and set/ship design takes a very close second. Character development, unfortunately, wasn't that big a deal in 1966. I would like to see the characters histories and backgrounds fleshed out more. But I, personally believe the technology and design of the ships and sets were central to making the stories work. Look at it this way, if this new bridge is so radically different in appearance to what came in TOS, how can the look of the bridge in episodes like TNG's "Relics", DS9's "Trials and Tribble-Ations", and ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" (USS Defiant), be explained? It looks like what this movie is going to do is re-invent Star Trek a'la' Battlestar Galactica and try to make the fans believe that the last 40 years of Star Trek history never actually happened. I hope that I'm wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2008, 08:30 AM
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I like to repeat some of Roddenberry's words:

The Starship Enterprise is not a collection of motion picture sets or a model used in visual effects. It is a very real vehicle; one designed for story-telling.
You, the audience, furnish its propulsion. With a wonderous leap of imagination, you make it into a real spaceship that can take us into the far reaches of the galaxy and sometimes even the depths of the human soul.
The purpose of all this? To show humans as we really are.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2008, 09:34 AM
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METAPHOR ALERT! I understand what the Great Bird was saying. However, it is the collection of motion picture sets and models used for visual effects that makes the whole thin go. Try to tell the story without the bridge or the Enterprise herself and see how far "imagination" gets you. GR was trying to say that Star Trek was a revoultionary idea in its day and that it was completely different from any other sci-fi show that had come before. Not that the sets and ships didn't matter. If that were the case, they would have changed the design of the bridge and the Big-E several times over the course of the series, or just randomly assigned ship names to whatever model they wished.
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:19 AM
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The bridge has been changed in each of the six movies, while the basic shape and design idea remained. From the very little we can see of the bridge, it seems like the new design stays with that philosophy.
And don't forget that we don't know in which timeframe that picture belongs, if the main part of the story happens e.g. five years before TOS (to explain the young charactors and create a time period for potential sequels) the interior may look different from an in-universe perspective because the E gets a refit between this movie and TOS just like before TMP and before WOK and before TUC.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
If they're smart, they'll make it look a little like Vektor's version. To wit:


From the images we've seen so far, when it comes to the look of the technology, they're not smart.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
The bridge has been changed in each of the six movies, while the basic shape and design idea remained. From the very little we can see of the bridge, it seems like the new design stays with that philosophy.
And don't forget that we don't know in which timeframe that picture belongs, if the main part of the story happens e.g. five years before TOS (to explain the young charactors and create a time period for potential sequels) the interior may look different from an in-universe perspective because the E gets a refit between this movie and TOS just like before TMP and before WOK and before TUC.
Except that five years before TOS would have been roughly the time between The Cage and WNMHGB, and this bridge takes a WILD design detour between two different but essentially very similar looks. It'd be a little like someone offering to show you some of the great past designs of Porche 911s -- and in between the 1988 and 1990 models on display is a 2009 model that's been labeled a 1989 model.

What do you say to the person pulling that one on ya?
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I like to repeat some of Roddenberry's words:

The Starship Enterprise is not a collection of motion picture sets or a model used in visual effects. It is a very real vehicle; one designed for story-telling.
You, the audience, furnish its propulsion. With a wonderous leap of imagination, you make it into a real spaceship that can take us into the far reaches of the galaxy and sometimes even the depths of the human soul.
The purpose of all this? To show humans as we really are.
All of that is a fine sentiment -- but not the same sentiment as, "We're going to immerse you in this world, but if we happen to get fidgety down the road and jar you out of that immersion for no reason other than The Almighty Dollar, we expect you to play along and not notice it."
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2008, 12:16 PM
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To be honest even the NX-01 bridge was clearly significantly more advanced looking than the TOS bridge and it was supposed to be a century older. So when you're dealing with a show made in the 1960s exact replication is always going to be difficult because of the colour palette and style of finish. But then I cannot call myself a purist when it comes to some areas of design.

And I must take the approach offered by Mission:Trek, which is to actuall wait and see the film to understand exactly what has been changed, if there's a reason, what that reason is and whether it's sigificant enough to consider too severe. I'm willing to bet not a single person on this forum know precisley, to the letter, to the tiniest detail, what happens in the film, and I see no point in scorning it until the context of the changes can be understood.

Back to the Ent design though. My feeling based on the teaser is for the visual detail that was seen in TMP, as it's clearly the TMP style saucer and bridge module, married with TOS nacelles, refinished to match the rest of the ship. As to the Deflector dish, I have no guess, possibly closer to TOS though is what I'm expecting.
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2008, 12:24 PM
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I disagree with the general sentiment being used to excuse this, the one that goes, "Well, you don't know every tiny-est detail, so you really ought to put blinders on and pretend you don't know anything at all!"

BS. I see a dorsal fin break the water, I don't need to know exactly how many teeth are in the shark's mouth to know it's a shark. I see a starship bridge that looks like it was designed by Apple in cooperation with Ikea, I don't need to know what the context is for that figurative middle finger to know that I, as a fan, have just been flipped off.
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