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  #1  
Old 08-22-2009, 03:21 PM
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Arrow Most pointless and baffling aspects of the Trek films

Troi driving the Enterprise. One of the main problems with the TNG films; too many characters with nothing to do. Why does the ship's counselar get to helm what, the most valuable Federation starship asset? Character development, my ***. This is also the Batazed who gets the character development of getting mind-raped for a plot element in Nemesis that felt shoehorned on.

"God". Take it or leave it, Star Trek V may have been a favourable for some Kirk/Spock/McCoy love, but the plot (and special effects) resembles a bad TOS episode.

The plastic surgery bad guys from Insurrection. What the hell? No seriously, what the hell was that all about? Maybe an allegory to Hollywood's obsession with staying young, but it sure as heck wasn't Star Trek. Insurrection's main idea about a conspiracy inside Starfleet and a forced re-location is actually a pretty good movie treatment. Unfortunately this is probably the weirdest film enemy the Trek crew have ever had. I've never felt uncomfortable or weird watching Star Trek until the enemies in Insurrection got some screen time.

Feel free to add your own
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kukalaka View Post
Troi driving the Enterprise. One of the main problems with the TNG films; too many characters with nothing to do. Why does the ship's counselar get to helm what, the most valuable Federation starship asset? Character development, my ***. This is also the Batazed who gets the character development of getting mind-raped for a plot element in Nemesis that felt shoehorned on.

"God". Take it or leave it, Star Trek V may have been a favourable for some Kirk/Spock/McCoy love, but the plot (and special effects) resembles a bad TOS episode.

The plastic surgery bad guys from Insurrection. What the hell? No seriously, what the hell was that all about? Maybe an allegory to Hollywood's obsession with staying young, but it sure as heck wasn't Star Trek. Insurrection's main idea about a conspiracy inside Starfleet and a forced re-location is actually a pretty good movie treatment. Unfortunately this is probably the weirdest film enemy the Trek crew have ever had. I've never felt uncomfortable or weird watching Star Trek until the enemies in Insurrection got some screen time.

Feel free to add your own
I pretty much agree with you on all of that and don't have much to add.

Insurrection's villains really were an EPIC FAIL in all aspects, which only contributed to the snoozefest nature of the film.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:52 PM
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I disagree. Throughout all off TNG, the helm did not seem like a very demanding bridge position (Geordi, Wesley, all those ensigns). Unlike in the other series which featured Sulu, Paris and Mayweather, piloting never seemed like a specialty but rather like something every officer aboard could do.
Troi just fits in there, a basic Academy course suffices to pilot the ship, and GEN showed that this comes in handy in emergencies.

The plot of STXI also resembles a typical goofy TOS episode. The search for god is perhaps not as good as e.g. accidentally meeting Greek gods like in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" but I consider the idea still to be fine.

I know that I am probably the only living Trekkie who loves INS, but the Sona and Baku were interesting IMO. It was a typical Shakespearean pattern, a private conflict among a small people gets interwoven with a larger political conflict. I could not care less about superficialities like the Sona makeup.
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:52 AM
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I disagree. Throughout all off TNG, the helm did not seem like a very demanding bridge position (Geordi, Wesley, all those ensigns). Unlike in the other series which featured Sulu, Paris and Mayweather, piloting never seemed like a specialty but rather like something every officer aboard could do.
Troi just fits in there, a basic Academy course suffices to pilot the ship, and GEN showed that this comes in handy in emergencies.
Yeah all crewmen are capable of manning the helm. Yeoman Rand and Uhura have done so in an emergency too.

I take issue with the scene in Insurrection where the Romulan officer offers herself to Shinzon on a plate. She clearly has no feelings for him, it is an embarassing way of demeaning an otherwise efficient military character, and it in no way adds anything to Shinzon's character.
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I disagree. Throughout all off TNG, the helm did not seem like a very demanding bridge position (Geordi, Wesley, all those ensigns). Unlike in the other series which featured Sulu, Paris and Mayweather, piloting never seemed like a specialty but rather like something every officer aboard could do.
Troi just fits in there, a basic Academy course suffices to pilot the ship, and GEN showed that this comes in handy in emergencies.
Agreed. Except in rare occurences in which manual control is needed, a starship basically flies itself with the helm officer only there to plot courses, calculate arrival times, and make sure that manual control isn't needed. After the damage the Enterprise-D took in Generations, the helm went offline, so it didn't matter who was sitting in the conn position because the saucer was going to crash anyway.
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The plot of STXI also resembles a typical goofy TOS episode. The search for god is perhaps not as good as e.g. accidentally meeting Greek gods like in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" but I consider the idea still to be fine.
I call it "The Meeting Superior Life-form Syndrome." It's perfectly okay to meet civilizations that are equal or less advanced than the Federation, but when we inevitably meet those who are more advanced, well...

The only thing that makes Q a likeable god is that he has a sense of humor and doesn't take things (including himself) that seriously. Ditto to some degree with the overly playful Trelane.
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I know that I am probably the only living Trekkie who loves INS, but the Sona and Baku were interesting IMO. It was a typical Shakespearean pattern, a private conflict among a small people gets interwoven with a larger political conflict. I could not care less about superficialities like the Sona makeup.
No, you're not alone. Insurrection is my favorite of the TNG movies. The Son'a might not have been Klingons or the Borg, but I thought they were a particularly vile adversary nonetheless. They also join the list of adversaries (like the Gorn, for example) that an understanding was reached with in the end...
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I disagree. Throughout all off TNG, the helm did not seem like a very demanding bridge position (Geordi, Wesley, all those ensigns). Unlike in the other series which featured Sulu, Paris and Mayweather, piloting never seemed like a specialty but rather like something every officer aboard could do.
Troi just fits in there, a basic Academy course suffices to pilot the ship, and GEN showed that this comes in handy in emergencies.

The plot of STXI also resembles a typical goofy TOS episode. The search for god is perhaps not as good as e.g. accidentally meeting Greek gods like in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" but I consider the idea still to be fine.

I know that I am probably the only living Trekkie who loves INS, but the Sona and Baku were interesting IMO. It was a typical Shakespearean pattern, a private conflict among a small people gets interwoven with a larger political conflict. I could not care less about superficialities like the Sona makeup.
I loved Insurretion, it was a breath of fresh air for me. I also loved the opening of the movie, people say it's boring but just because it's not palm-sweating awseome doesn't mean it's not good.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kukalaka View Post
Troi driving the Enterprise. One of the main problems with the TNG films; too many characters with nothing to do. Why does the ship's counselar get to helm what, the most valuable Federation starship asset? Character development, my ***. This is also the Batazed who gets the character development of getting mind-raped for a plot element in Nemesis that felt shoehorned on.
That's also a problem with the TOS films IMO.

I don't think it falls under character development, true - but in both scenarios the bridge has been trashed in battle and it seems replacement crew was thin on the ground.

Troi underwent command training in the series, so she was qualified to be in command by the time of the movies and instead of hiring an extra that has to be called up, why not have Sirtis (whose likely costing a lot more anyway) step in.

Quote:
"God".
Quote:
Take it or leave it, Star Trek V may have been a favourable for some Kirk/Spock/McCoy love, but the plot (and special effects) resembles a bad TOS episode.
Can't really disagree with any of that. Except I'd like more umbrage taken with the bad science about the Galactic Core. It evens up the Supernove thing from the new film.

Quote:
The plastic surgery bad guys from Insurrection.
Quote:
What the hell? No seriously, what the hell was that all about? Maybe an allegory to Hollywood's obsession with staying young, but it sure as heck wasn't Star Trek. Insurrection's main idea about a conspiracy inside Starfleet and a forced re-location is actually a pretty good movie treatment. Unfortunately this is probably the weirdest film enemy the Trek crew have ever had. I've never felt uncomfortable or weird watching Star Trek until the enemies in Insurrection got some screen time.
Yeah, the 'I just want to be pretty and young' thing was very lame. The forced relocation aspects could have been interesting but had been dealt with in TNG (The Cardassian DMZ) and we knew the answer already.

Yes, the Federation would screw a group of people if it decided it was worth it. That same thing has happened several times in real Earth history so they were up a creek without a paddle trying to sell that one.

Especially when Picard went along with the DMZ decision and enforced it for Starfleet in the latter episodes of TNG.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:34 AM
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The difference between the Baku incident and the peace treaty with the Cardassians is that the former involves a third party while the latter is an internal Federation problem.
Resettling the Baku is a violation of the Prime Directive and probably plenty of other UFP laws whereas giving up some territories is inevitable if you want peace with the Cardassians.

To be blunt, the colonists who remained in Cardassian space are dumb, the ones who later joined the Maquis are criminal.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:39 AM
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Depend on your perspective I guess - The point remains that the Federation will disadvantage a group of people to suit themselves.

Essentially those who stayed indeed made a choice - the same way the Federation chose to move a boundary that put them under another power against their will.

Just as they've broken the PD before, and agreed with Starfleet Captains who have done so.

I see it as one of those things where the PD gets held up or thrown down on the whim of the writers - so the INS plot remains pointless. It's like a PR excecise to remind us of what the PD was intended to be, but was not always shown as in practice thanks to several violations of it over the years.
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Last edited by kevin : 08-23-2009 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:54 AM
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Whenever a Starfleet captain bended the PD, he or she had ample reason to do because the case was ambiguous. Guys like Captain Merik or Admiral Dougherty on the other hand would have been court martialed for clear violations of rule number one.
The Federation citizens who are forced to move after the Federation-Cardassian peace treaty can protest against the decision, gather support in the Federation and influence the decision process. When you make democratic decisions there are always winners and losers, yet this cannot be compared to outright criminal behaviour. One might consider the price for peace to be too high, but giving up land for peace is anything but criminal.

The viewers who don't accept Picard's perspective are free to side with Dougherty, but I like to point out that he ended up on the face-stretch-bank.

Last edited by horatio : 08-23-2009 at 02:58 AM.
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