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Old 06-01-2009, 10:58 AM
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Default Sex and Violence in a more emotional Spock

By now most of us have seen Zachary Quinto's portrayal of the Spock character in the new Star Trek Movie. While I loved Quinto as a Vulcan (come to think of it, he would make a good-lookin Romulan as well), i couldn't help but feel the performance was off, that is, not in line with the portrayal of Spock by Nimoy, which this character is supposed to be, at an earlier stage. Off in terms of how this Vulcan copes with both sex and violence, compared with Nimoy's incarnation of the character. Can we simply ride this off as the result of the intense pubertal urges of a younger Vulcan? Or the uncontrollable breakdown of a character who has just lost both his mother and homeworld? Or even hypothesize that this Spock isn't the same Spock that will develop into the character we know and love from TOS? Yes, i know Nimoy's Spock has demonstrated violence in TOS episodes such as "Amok Time", where he battles and nearly kills Kirk. And Nimoy's Spock has also displayed emotion in episodes like "This side of Paradise," and "The Naked Time," but these were unusual circumstances that provoked the revelation of these "hidden" emotions. Quinto's Spock embraces his emotions, that is the difference. Here's Nimoy's quote about a scene he was asked to perform in "The Enemy Within," where he was asked to knock Kirk unconscious with the butt of a phaser,

"The scene jarred me when i first read it; it seemed to me more appropriate for the Old West than the twenty-third century. I could practically hear the Vulcan whispering in my ear:

SPOCK: Barbaric. A Vulcan would avoid unnecessary violence at all cost. We have, afterall, made a thorough study of the human anatomy, and utilize more scientific methods, which render the use of force obsolete."

And here is another quote from Nimoy's I AM SPOCK, regarding being approached to do a love scene by D.C. Fontana


"Hey, i have an idea for a Spock love story," (she said). I was taken aback. Worse than taken aback-I was frightened.

"Look", i told her, "it makes me nervous to hear you even talk about such a thing. I feel I've finally gotten a good grip on the character and I don't want to lose what we have." The Vulcan was firmly established in my mind-and the audience's-as a cool, distant character, and the very phrase, "Spock love story" seemed oxymoronic."

I realize Nimoy has given his full support to this film, Quinto's Spock included. And some may argue, if it's good enough for Nimoy, it's good enough for me. But i can't help but wonder if we are losing the "real" Spock.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:07 AM
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It was all in the movie, young Spock has not mastered his emotions yet, young Spock loses his planet and his mother, old Spock tells young Spock to find the golden middle. Which part did you not understand?

Just guess how you would have imagined a younger Spock a year ago. Why did he break with his father and join Starfleet? Obviously because he wants to explore his human side, something he would never admit to anyone. Sounds familiar?
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:27 AM
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Indeed. As I've always said, these people do not start off as the paragons of morality and decorum that we knew in the original series, but you can see them shaping up right into that.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
It was all in the movie, young Spock has not mastered his emotions yet, young Spock loses his planet and his mother, old Spock tells young Spock to find the golden middle. Which part did you not understand?

Just guess how you would have imagined a younger Spock a year ago. Why did he break with his father and join Starfleet? Obviously because he wants to explore his human side, something he would never admit to anyone. Sounds familiar?
I 100% agre with this and also the fact he just lost his home planet of Vulcan during the course of this film.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:35 AM
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The complaints I keep reading say Quinto it not enough what they expect as the established Spock character. Do you want him to be a Nimoy clone? Or perhaps the idea is to start differently and evolve? Would you like to see the process or immediately go to the finished product?
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:42 AM
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The complaints I keep reading say Quinto it not enough what they expect as the established Spock character. Do you want him to be a Nimoy clone? Or perhaps the idea is to start differently and evolve? Would you like to see the process or immediately go to the finished product?
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:42 AM
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"not in line with the portrayal of Spock by Nimoy"

Our half-human "Quinto Spock" has some growing up to do. Go back and watch The Cage, you'll see a quite emotional "Nimoy Spock". Even in "The Galileo Seven", Spock was unravelling.

Last edited by priell3 : 06-01-2009 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:46 AM
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As far as Vulcan emotion goes, Vulcans do allow themselves to feel the more positive aspects of emotion.

How many times have we heard Nimoy's Spock mention that he was "delighted", "pleased", and even grin on occasion (Uhura singing to Spock's Vulcan Lyre playing)? They are still rather restrained in it, but they do allow themselves to feel it. I think it is how they keep themselves in balance.

They repress the negative emotions (the Dark Side if you will). Those usually only come out when absolutely provoked.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by priell3 View Post
"not in line with the portrayal of Spock by Nimoy"

Our half-human "Quinto Spock" has some growing up to do. Go back and watch The Cage, you'll see a quite emotional "Nimoy Spock".
That wasn't intentional. It was because Nimoy didn't have a handle on the character yet. Yet, some take this to be canon that Spock was more emotional, not as matured as he'd become during Kirk's command. Well, i suppose you could go with this. Spock tells Kirk in "The Menagerie, Part I" that he served with Pike for 17 years, that's plenty of time to mature.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:28 PM
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That wasn't intentional. It was because Nim oy didn't have a handle on the character yet. Yet, some take this to be canon that Spock was more emotional, not as matured as he'd become during Kirk's command. Well, i suppose you could go with this. Spock tells Kirk in "The Menagerie, Part I" that he served with Pike for 17 years, that's plenty of time to mature.
It was both intentional and not. The emotions Spock displayed early on were certainly written and performed that way intentionally. And yes, it was decided a little later he showed no emotions because Vulcans had no emotions. Then later it was decided that Spock, being half human, did have emotions but with rigid Vulcan control surpressed and controlled them.

It was not that Nimoy didn't have a handle on the character but that the creators- producers, writers and Nimoy- were still in the process of developing and nailing down the character of Mr. Spock.

That all was 'taken as canon' because that's how was canon developed and established. It was determined decades ago that 'if it was on the screen, it was canon'. And that's been (for the most part) true for these decades. And when something presented on screen seemed to contradict canon, explainations for these apparent canon violations were contrived. And were often, if not usually, satisfying. And THAT my friend has been the pleasure and pain of Trek canon.

What JJ, Orci and Kurtzman did was look at the early 'emotional', developing Spock performances and gave them a canonical(?) explaination. Brilliant and satisfying, IMO.
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Last edited by That Metal Beastie : 06-01-2009 at 02:31 PM.
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