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Old 04-04-2009, 09:37 AM
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Default Iowa 250 years ahead of Trek

It's official: The Iowa state ledge has made it legal for gay couples to marry. This makes them the third state of the union to do so. It also puts them way ahead of Star Trek in two ways: 1) admitting that they exist. and 2) allowing them to be an equal part of society. All in present day, and not in the 24th 1/2 century.

The embarassment continues: 40 years of Trek, and not one gay character in the entire series.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:45 AM
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If memory serves Trek adressed the issue allegorically in two or three episodes (e.g. TNG's "The Host"). I understand your disappointment that no homosexual or bisexual main character has been portrayed in Trek yet, but the the Federation is, unlike our present societies, entirely free of homophobia. So please don't pretend that Trek is not ahead of its time.
Only because Chekov is not seen in "Space Seed" he could still have been on the ship, only because homosexual people have not been portrayed yet they still exist in Trek's fictional future.

Last edited by horatio : 04-04-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:47 PM
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Ditto to that!
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
It's official: The Iowa state ledge has made it legal for gay couples to marry. This makes them the third state of the union to do so. It also puts them way ahead of Star Trek in two ways: 1) admitting that they exist. and 2) allowing them to be an equal part of society. All in present day, and not in the 24th 1/2 century.

The embarassment continues: 40 years of Trek, and not one gay character in the entire series.
In truth, very few characters in TOS explored their sex life. Certainly the fact that Spock gave up heterosexual sex in Amok Time and embraced Kirk at the end of that episode implies where his affections lie. Whether he ever acted on any of this or lived celibate is unknown, as far as I'm aware.

I think it was the huge intolerance that was born in the late 1970's and 1980's that really cast the possibility of Spock loving Kirk in a very ill and even ridiculed light.

On NPR (Fresh Air, I think) recently they were talking about the rise of these new "bromance" movies (I love you, Man) and how if you read the letters of men to each other prior to around 1880 (in the USA) , they would often say "I love you" or "I can't wait to be with you again." Something happened in the 1880's that shifted European based culture (especially in the USA) away from these types of expressions of male to male affection. The guy on NPR said the word "homosexual" didn't even come into exisitance until the 1880's. I don't know if that is true or not.

All I know is that if my son turns out to be gay I'd want him to have a home and family. I'd want him to be able to marry and adopt because he's a very loving boy and would make a great dad regardless of who is partner is.
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Old 05-13-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
If memory serves Trek adressed the issue allegorically in two or three episodes (e.g. TNG's "The Host"). I understand your disappointment that no homosexual or bisexual main character has been portrayed in Trek yet, but the the Federation is, unlike our present societies, entirely free of homophobia. So please don't pretend that Trek is not ahead of its time.
Only because Chekov is not seen in "Space Seed" he could still have been on the ship, only because homosexual people have not been portrayed yet they still exist in Trek's fictional future.
I could not have said it better myself. Please realize that, because we are talking about SEXUAL orientation, what we are going to see on the screen is a bit different from just showing people of different races, or just women (instead of all men), or even handicapped people. Gay people look like everyone else, except when they are openly expressing affection for their significant other. As has been said by others, the Spock/Uhura moment on the transporter was not a professional moment, and as such, it looked out of place (even by people unfamiliar with the difference between this Spock and Spock Prime). You cannot be having people making out on the bridge. Therefore, if it's going to be done, it would have to be done in a very throw-away sense, in the background, and not be focused upon. Think of it this way: Nichelle Nichols was the first black woman to portray a television character in a leadership position. But the script never referred to her by her race; she was just Uhura and stood on her own, like everyone else on the show.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:38 PM
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Horatio, we've talked about this before, and I'm just bringing up the Iowa thing to contrast it with our favorite series.... Not only is Trek NOT ahead of it's time on this issue, it's not even up to par with other science fiction series recently, or currently in production. Farscape, Firefly, Torchwood, Doctor Who, the recently concluded Battlestar Galactica... all of them had gay and lesbian characters out in front, not nebulously "offstage" somewhere.

Trek is falling down on one of it's most basic premises: that it tries to portray a better future where everyone is respected and valued. Well, it seems to me that GLBT folks have been, and are still being, given the ol' airlock treatment by the producers.
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Old 04-04-2009, 02:02 PM
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FanWriter45, you are quite correct.

Trek has always been afraid of this issue. There have been scattered issues throughout the four spin-offs of brief lesbianism for the soul purpose of titilation.
Every time the possibility of facing the issue arose, the producers lost their nerve.
The 'off stage somewhere' notion is a little lame.

cjopbj, are you claiming there is meant to be a sexual attraction between Kirk and Spock? I'm not sure what you mean.

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Old 04-04-2009, 08:29 PM
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The thing is, TREK has been made in OUR time... never in the 23rd/24th century.

Focus on changing OUR social attitudes today and the future will reflect those changes. Sit back and wait for the future to show us the way to equality, and we'll never achieve it for anyone.

Change today for the better and you'll change TREK, not the other way around.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:53 PM
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Trek hasn't explored very many of the character's sex lives? What?

Kirk seemed to be on a one man mission to spread the human genome throughout the galaxy...(het)

Scotty had a couple of love affairs, both in Lights of Zetar, and Wolf in the Fold...(het)

Uhura was pretty attracted to that crewman in Man Trap... and even helped Kirk seal the first interracial kiss on TV.. (het)

Spock was up for hanky panky with T'pring, a Romulan Commander, Mariette Hartley in bearskins, ready to buy the farm and settle down in another episode...(het)

Checkov was ready to do some tom foolery with some of Harry Mudd's female androids, and a fake cowgirl in a hallucination about the OK corral, etc. etc... (het)

Bones McCoy was going to marry a high Priestess, and, as Dax noted, "Had hands of a surgeon..." (het)

There were also indications that Sulu was the ladies man with a foil... (Naked Time)

Chapel was carrying a torch for Spock (het)

Hell, even Lt. Leslie, seen in the background of most of the episodes, was give a scene where he was "checking out" one of Mudds Women in sickbay... (het)

Remember, this whole Kirk and Spock thing is an invention of the slash writing fandom, and none of it is considered cannon by anyone with any connection to the Trek franchise. None of it. Not one bit. So the slash porn in interesting, BUT it is not to be taken seriously...

In the meantime, on other series, we have Capt. Jack Harkness, Chianna on Farscape, Anara on Firefly, and several of the Cylon models on BSG... All of whom seem to be perfectly accepted, and contributin members of their crews/teams.
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
Trek hasn't explored very many of the character's sex lives? What?

Kirk seemed to be on a one man mission to spread the human genome throughout the galaxy...(het)

Scotty had a couple of love affairs, both in Lights of Zetar, and Wolf in the Fold...(het)

Uhura was pretty attracted to that crewman in Man Trap... and even helped Kirk seal the first interracial kiss on TV.. (het)

Spock was up for hanky panky with T'pring, a Romulan Commander, Mariette Hartley in bearskins, ready to buy the farm and settle down in another episode...(het)

Checkov was ready to do some tom foolery with some of Harry Mudd's female androids, and a fake cowgirl in a hallucination about the OK corral, etc. etc... (het)

Bones McCoy was going to marry a high Priestess, and, as Dax noted, "Had hands of a surgeon..." (het)

There were also indications that Sulu was the ladies man with a foil... (Naked Time)

Chapel was carrying a torch for Spock (het)

Hell, even Lt. Leslie, seen in the background of most of the episodes, was give a scene where he was "checking out" one of Mudds Women in sickbay... (het)

Remember, this whole Kirk and Spock thing is an invention of the slash writing fandom, and none of it is considered cannon by anyone with any connection to the Trek franchise. None of it. Not one bit. So the slash porn in interesting, BUT it is not to be taken seriously...

In the meantime, on other series, we have Capt. Jack Harkness, Chianna on Farscape, Anara on Firefly, and several of the Cylon models on BSG... All of whom seem to be perfectly accepted, and contributin members of their crews/teams.
You have a point there. I guess I was looking for something more than flirtations when I said that. Of all the people you mention, only Kirk parented a child so he is the only one we know for sure went beyond a coy look. Of course, that was the trend in the 1960's. Even when characters had children (Ben Cartwright, for example) they were widowers or widows.

I wish the movies had gone beyond the tv show in this subject. Gay or not, a reference to some sort of significant relationship beyond their co-workers would have been nice.

I don't read Trek novels or on-line stories. Only watch the tv and movies.
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