[AdmiralClouatre]

Well, for post #2, I decided to start my own "examination thread" which MAY or may not have been done ad nauseum, but I decided "Why not?"...

As I sit here staring at the Abramsprise and my model of the TMP 1701, I recall something said by JJ in a recent interview of how he basically fawned over the scale and detail of the TMP Enterprise...which led me to think "Maybe he 'enforced' his own little obsession with this ship to Ryan Church in giving his edict on how the new 1701 should look?" So I did a little bit of investigating and decided to post the many many things he "borrowed" from the TMP 1701, and once my Windows 7 Beta version of Paint works like it's supposed to, I'll post comparison pics (unless someone here would be gracious enough to do so), but in the meantime, I'll give my little itemized list.

1.) Deflector grid surrounding the outer lip of the Saucer Section
2.) The "three lights" underneath the Bridge Module
3.) Window patterns on the outer lip of the new ship
4.) Lower Sensor Dome and the 4 lights/sensors directly above the actual dome itself
5.) Phaser housings (upper and lower saucer)
6.) Photorp Tube housing and design reeks of TMP
7.) Warp pylon panels on inside of both pylons (almost the same blue-grey color as well)
8.) Impulse reactor housing (not the assembly itself, but the discharge assembly)
9.) Placement of the Secondary Hull Docking Ports
10.) Warp transfer conduit panels on either side the dorsal (same as pylon panels)
11.) Blue-ish color of the Deflector dish
12.) Reaction Control Thrusters on the four points of the saucer
13.) The Starfleet pennant on the side of the Engineering Hull, along with the circle behind the Arrowhead (a TMP move right there, coinciding with the new insignia used in TMP)

I am sure there are more things, and I am not sure if this was covered, but his little comment about the TMP 1701 made the warp core in my head churn a little bit and I felt like sharing If there are any things I may have missed (not how the Secondary Hull looks like a lot of it was borrowed from the lines of the Excelsior's secondary hull, with TMP 1701 thrown in for "roundness") PLEASE add to the list...I hope this starts a little bit of conversation and some close scrutiny in angles we haven't covered...yet

[MissionTrek08]

Interesting, though one might as easily make a long list of big differences between the TMP E and Abrams'. If Abrams had an actual agenda for hewing close to the TMP Refit version, I doubt he'd base it on details like "three lights underneath the Bridge Module" since having only two would likely have no impact on the ship's character in the film.

On the other hand, TMP was the oldest big screen model of the Enterprise created, and for lack of a better example, might be the closest film series ship to that which appeared in TOS. Given how many people don't watch TOS, he may have started with the version of the E most moviegoers recognize from the TOS-crew films.

[starbase63]

Originally Posted by MissionTrek08

Interesting, though one might as easily make a long list of big differences between the TMP E and Abrams'. If Abrams had an actual agenda for hewing close to the TMP Refit version, I doubt he'd base it on details like "three lights underneath the Bridge Module" since having only two would likely have no impact on the ship's character in the film.

On the other hand, TMP was the oldest big screen model of the Enterprise created, and for lack of a better example, might be the closest film series ship to that which appeared in TOS. Given how many people don't watch TOS, he may have started with the version of the E most moviegoers recognize from the TOS-crew films.

Of course they could always have taken a trip to Washington to see the original TOS filming model at the Smithsonian...but that would have meant going for historical accuracy, wouldn't it?

[MissionTrek08]

Sure, let's ignore the fact that this is an altered universe again. Besides, this is a new feature film... if you want accurate "historical documents", there will be a new DVD release of GALAXY QUEST coming out soon.

[AdmiralClouatre]

I love where you are going in your points, and all of them are totally valid. Where I was going is not that Abrams went Aztec pattern by Aztec pattern to Church, but he may have told Church "Hey, make your ship kinda look like this ship.", if you feel where I am going. Basically I feel, IMHO, Abrams is and was so infatuated with the TMP 1701 (like a lot of us are, even myself), and considering legal concerns with the Viacom people and CBS people (mentioned in an earlier post I read), he leaned towards making it more TMP friendly and less TOS obvious...If I am making any sense

[MissionTrek08]

I understand what you're saying, but I note a point in your recent comment: Viacom and/or CBS have nothing to say about the TMP Refit design in terms of this film. Paramount still owns the movie franchise rights, and both examples are from feature films. Since both entities are subsidiaries of the same parent company, one is not going to sue the other over ship design similarities.

It's the Enterprise: it's going to have many more basic similarities than minor detail differences -- but it's still all in the same corporate family.

I personally don't see Abrams' obsession with TMP, but I've never looked into it either. But I'd put it this way: his ship can't look more like the TNG Enterprise than the TMP version, so what other choice for comparison would there be (in terms of feature film ship versions)? They all relate to the original design anyway, so how far away could they get?

[Commodore]

Originally Posted by MissionTrek08

I understand what you're saying, but I note a point in your recent comment: Viacom and/or CBS have nothing to say about the TMP Refit design in terms of this film. Paramount still owns the movie franchise rights, and both examples are from feature films. Since both entities are subsidiaries of the same parent company, one is not going to sue the other over ship design similarities.

Actually, they would, because CBS and Viacom are not from the same parent company anymore. They split up in 2006, with each taking half of Paramount (and the Star Trek franchise) with them. As a result, CBS (which owns Paramount TV) has the rights to the original TOS Enterprise, while Viacom (which owns Paramount movies) has the rights to the TMP Enterprise.

CBS would sue Viacom in a heartbeat if Viacom tried to use any design from the TV shows. Viacom can alter the designs so they're not 100% identical, but they can't use the exact same design. The only things Viacom can use are things that appeared in the first ten films because those were "grandfathered" in before CBS and Viacom went their separate ways in 2006, with each taking half of the Star Trek franchise with them. Abrams' apparent fascination with the TMP Enterprise is likely due to it being the earliest version of the original ship he can use.

Paramount is no longer one company. It's just a trademark that Viacom and CBS share (along with Star Trek). And the sad thing is that it didn't have to be this way, but the rancor between Viacom and CBS was so bad that it was supposedly one of the reasons that Mr. Redstone split them up. Unfortunately, it's only gotten worse since then between them...

[MissionTrek08]

Originally Posted by Commodore

CBS would sue Viacom in a heartbeat if Viacom tried to use any design from the TV shows.

Even if that's true, what does CBS have to do with suing anyone if Abrams' ship bears similarities to the TMP Refit, since neither are television properties, which is all CBS 'owns'?

[Commodore]

Originally Posted by MissionTrek08

Even if that's true...

It is. That's just how bad it is between the two companies.

...what does CBS have to do with suing anyone if Abrams' ship bears similarities to the TMP Refit, since neither are television properties, which is all CBS 'owns'?

As I said before, CBS could take legal action if Viacom tried to use designs from the TV shows. The only exceptions are those designs that appeared in the movies prior to the 2006 split. Viacom can use the TMP Enterprise, but not the TOS Enterprise because it was never used in any of the movies before the split.

The best analogy to describe CBS and Viacom is that of a bitter divorced couple with Paramount divided between them as part of the settlement.

[AdmiralClouatre]

Yes, I see your points, but when designing a ship of the PAST, should you incorporate elements of the FUTURE in the line of the 1701? If anything, this ship would make a more logical progression as the ship that was refit to the TMP 1701, not the TOS 1701 to TMP refit. Am I making any sense?