The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > Canon-fans: Why have you been abandoned?
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:11 PM
LTJG Iferal's Avatar
LTJG Iferal LTJG Iferal is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 265
Default Canon-fans: Why have you been abandoned?

Why on earth would Paramount so disrespect you - YOU, the loyal Trek fan base! The ones who have been putting food on their table! The ones without whom Star Trek would not have become the international phenomenon it is!

I have a theory. Try to follow along.

Let's take a look at the last few "canon-respecting" Star Trek movies.

Star Trek: First Contact
$45m budget
$92,027,888 gross domestic
$146,027,888 gross worldwide

Star Trek: Insurrection
$58m budget
$70,187,658 gross domestic
$112,600,000 gross worldwide

Star Trek Nemesis
$60m budget
$43,254,409 gross domestic
$67,312,826 gross worldwide

Maybe that's why. The more money they spent trying to make you happy, the less you appreciated their effort. I suggest that you all had come to take Star Trek for granted. They kept releasing Picard movies and you eventually stopped caring. And now - NOW, something is "different", and suddenly you're all in a tizzy, and threatening to "boycott" the movie because it doesn't fit your perfect canon...well, what happened the last time they stuck to canon? Where were YOU in December '02? Fine, we know NOW that Nemesis was a horrible movie - but nobody knew that on opening day, so where was everybody? George Lucas released two epicly-crappy movies and people STILL lined up at midnight in all their robe-clad, plastic-sword-wielding geekdom when Episode III came out. Where was the representation for Star Trek? Say what you want, but the fact is, most of you were watching Lord of the Rings, or Harry-frickin-Potter. The numbers don't lie. Your threat to "boycott" simply doesn't have any teeth, because apparently you've been boycotting Trek in growing numbers for the last several years.

What have you managed to give TPTB for sticking to canon?

First Contact: $101 million.

Insurrection: $54 million.

Nemesis: $7 million.

Why has Paramount abandoned you? Exactly who has abandoned whom?

All this movie has to do is net more than $7 million dollars to prove that you purists are not the asset you all seem to think you are.

Just my two cents.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Diron Hod's Avatar
Diron Hod Diron Hod is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,766
Default

He's got a point, you know.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:21 PM
radoskal's Avatar
radoskal radoskal is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 952
Default

Personally I can tell you where I was in December of 02, at least for a few hours. In my College town theater, which by the way is for some reason an hour outside of the college town, SEEING NEMESIS...oh and did I also mention I bought the DVD of Nemesis? just to have all 10 trek movies. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not the only one. So if you ask me if I personally feel justified in my position, you sure bet I do. That 7 million had to come from somewhere, and part of it came out of my pocket. I regretted it afterwards. They should have given the director's job to Frakes, like he wanted, and stuck with the original script.
__________________
Mom, how many times do I have to tell you, Track is what athletes run on. Trek is what the Enterprise goes on.

-Free Enterprise
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:27 PM
LTJG Iferal's Avatar
LTJG Iferal LTJG Iferal is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radoskal View Post
Personally I can tell you where I was in December of 02, at least for a few hours. In my College town theater, which by the way is for some reason an hour outside of the college town, SEEING NEMESIS...oh and did I also mention I bought the DVD of Nemesis? just to have all 10 trek movies.
So you were the one.

It's true, that the $7 million had to come from "somewhere". But the point is, that "where" is one heck of a lot smaller than it was even 5 years earlier. When you talk about the "loyal fan base", you're talking about the Incredible Shrinking Woman, plain and simple. And the point still stands: those of you who choose to boycott will ultimately make zero difference whatsoever. If everybody didn't show up for the last movie, it's not going to make Paramount feel bad that you all won't show up for this one.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:41 AM
MigueldaRican's Avatar
MigueldaRican MigueldaRican is offline
Lieutenant Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radoskal View Post
Personally I can tell you where I was in December of 02, at least for a few hours. In my College town theater, which by the way is for some reason an hour outside of the college town, SEEING NEMESIS...oh and did I also mention I bought the DVD of Nemesis? just to have all 10 trek movies. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not the only one. So if you ask me if I personally feel justified in my position, you sure bet I do. That 7 million had to come from somewhere, and part of it came out of my pocket. I regretted it afterwards. They should have given the director's job to Frakes, like he wanted, and stuck with the original script.
Frakes directed Insurrection.
__________________
01001110011011110010000001101101011011110111001001 10010100100000011000100110110001100001011010000010 00000110001001101100011000010110100000100000011000 10011011000110000101101000
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-05-2008, 11:58 AM
radoskal's Avatar
radoskal radoskal is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 952
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
Frakes directed Insurrection.
And? Insurection was good and totally unappreciated. He also directed first contact which was great.
__________________
Mom, how many times do I have to tell you, Track is what athletes run on. Trek is what the Enterprise goes on.

-Free Enterprise
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:21 PM
The Saint's Avatar
The Saint The Saint is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTJG Iferal
Let's take a look at the last few "canon-respecting" Star Trek movies.

Star Trek: First Contact
$45m budget
$92,027,888 gross domestic
$146,027,888 gross worldwide

Star Trek: Insurrection
$58m budget
$70,187,658 gross domestic
$112,600,000 gross worldwide

Star Trek Nemesis
$60m budget
$43,254,409 gross domestic
$67,312,826 gross worldwide

Maybe that's why. The more money they spent trying to make you happy, the less you appreciated their effort.
Perhaps the lesson for Paramount was -- release increasingly badly-written movies, watch them do increasingly poorly at the box office. Don't forget that fans were growing increasingly weary of the showrunners by that point. Canon hardly figured into the films, since they were moving forward in time (within the overall Trek story) not backward. Look at the backlash Enterprise got, on the other hand, and then also figure that into the growing attitude of dismissiveness for Berman & Braga's reign as Trek's helmers.
__________________
"Now I did a job -- and got nothin' but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character, so let me make this abundantly clear: I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:36 PM
LTJG Iferal's Avatar
LTJG Iferal LTJG Iferal is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Perhaps the lesson for Paramount was -- release increasingly badly-written movies, watch them do increasingly poorly at the box office. Don't forget that fans were growing increasingly weary of the showrunners by that point. Canon hardly figured into the films, since they were moving forward in time (within the overall Trek story) not backward. Look at the backlash Enterprise got, on the other hand, and then also figure that into the growing attitude of dismissiveness for Berman & Braga's reign as Trek's helmers.
You completely missed the point about Lucas's pathetically-bad stories still bringing in the fans because people didn't care about the script, they loved Star Wars (for some reason, I don't get it either), and that's all that mattered to them. Insurrection and Nemesis may have been (OK, were) "badly-written", but they were Trek to the core, there's no escaping it.

Besides, my last point still stands: You've said yourself that it's not "just canon" but this story that you've decided is bad, that makes you dislike this movie. Well, if this "badly-written", non-canon story nets more than $7 million next summer, your excuses about bad writing will turn out to have been rather empty.

You've been "abandoned" because your loyalty, such as it is, to the brand doesn't pay. Paramount can't afford to keep feeding you for free.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:52 PM
TAReber TAReber is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28
Default

The conditions between Star Trek and Star Wars fans are completely different. A huge archive of star trek shows are available to everyone where Star Wars was limited to an ending.

Basically what I'm trying to get at is my favorite star trek show can be found on TV every day, where Star Wars is a much more rare occasion then Star Trek. If I want to see what happens in star trek, I can turn on the TV, If i want to see what happened in star wars, I had to go to the movie theater.

Last edited by TAReber : 12-03-2008 at 06:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-05-2008, 02:00 PM
Captain Tightpants's Avatar
Captain Tightpants Captain Tightpants is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Glendale, CA.
Posts: 89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTJG Iferal View Post
You completely missed the point about Lucas's pathetically-bad stories still bringing in the fans because people didn't care about the script, they loved Star Wars (for some reason, I don't get it either), and that's all that mattered to them. Insurrection and Nemesis may have been (OK, were) "badly-written", but they were Trek to the core, there's no escaping it.
I'd lay even money that if Episodes I, II, and III had cost $50 or $60 million dollars apiece they would have met with the same fate as their Trek counterparts. Whatever their shortcomings -- and they are FAR too numerous to mention here -- for the most part they were pretty visually-spectacular films, which goes a long way for the prototypical light-saber-wielding, Dorito-smelling geek. If Lucasfilm had cheaped-out on the Star Wars prequels the way that Paramount has on Star Trek for all these years it would have been a very different story and, say what you want about Lucas, he was smart enough to know that.
__________________
"The fact that he would have passed up a visit to the Louvre or the Prado in favour of ten minutes alone with a knicker catalogue—this, perhaps, was a personal quirk."—Martin Amis, London Fields

Last edited by Captain Tightpants : 12-05-2008 at 02:03 PM. Reason: OCD.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.