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Old 07-25-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Penalties for the Joe Paterno scandal

Well, for one who does not follow sports very much, sometimes things happen that are like watching a train wreck...for some reason, ya' just can't look away.

Metta World Peace's elbowing of an opposing player in basketball, and then acting like nothing happened...that was one thing...hence, my signature.

This whole thing with the Penn State Scandal over Joe Paterno and his compatriots....wow....interesting.

So, with this report that was handed down, and having been accepted as complete and true, Penn State's football program now suffers penalties that are almost nuclear in their fallout.

-111+ wins to be vacated from 1998 to 2011.
-$60M fine to be paid over 5 years which is to be earmarked for sex-abuse prevention and victim programs.
- Four year ban on post-season play. IOW, no championship chances.
- A cut in the number of scholarships that can be handed out. Only 15 allowed, as opposed to the standard 25 that most other schools enjoy.
-Penn State's cut of the conference's estimated shared bowl revenue – about $13 million over four years – will be donated to “established charitable organizations in Big Ten communities dedicated to the protection of children.” (Directly quoted from recordonline.com)

Students at Penn State (at least those who are slavish to sports programs) reacted with shock at the bombshell of sanctions dropped on their school's athletic program. It's basically a short term death penalty for the football program. Short-term because it's only four years, but it will likely take considerable time for the program to recover from that, so the effects will likely be long-lasting.

Folks who are more detached from the following of such cults view the sanctions as anywhere from "perfectly levied" to "not stringent enough", thinking of the real victims of the scandal (not the students that were affected by the sanctions, but the children that suffered during this prolonged period of deviant enabling.)

The only real upsides for athletic students at Penn State are that they are free to transfer to other universities and colleges if they wish to continue their sports activities. Other students who wish to continue their educational endeavors (the ummm...purpose...of an institution of higher learning) are free to remain and continue, sans sports activity.

I can understand both sides of the coin on this:

On the one hand, the students feel as if THEY are the ones being punished for the illicit and criminal activities of several individuals in the campus faculty. Those who played their hearts out to secure victories for their team over the course of 14 years (obviously quite a list of alumni over that time, including current students), now feel as if everything has just been yanked out from under them, arbitrarily. One student said something to the effect of: "So those victories weren't real, huh? This steel plate I got in my head as a result of playing in one of those won games says otherwise." I'm sure that fans feel just as passionately as the students who ACTUALLY play(ed) the games.

On the other hand, I can empathize with those who feel that the penalties incurred on Penn State are necessary beyond doubt...sending (hopefully) a clear message to sex offenders, and to other campuses that might engage in such cover up activities to preserve their name and "honor".

I'm kinda ambivalent myself. I've seen plenty of music and arts programs go by the wayside to jocktivities, because, supposedly, THAT's where da' money at. So seeing this, well...all I can say is "good luck to your sports future. Maybe you can try investing in aspiring musicians so we can start getting some good stuff on the radio again...now HEY, THERE's a noble cause."
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:47 PM
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I can't sympathize with those students at all. I can't possibly feel that entitled. I can't possibly be that selfish and still breathe. I could not compare such paltry amount of determinent to the emotional damage done to not to just 45 children but to all those that we never found too.

No I would refuse to in-dignify their horror by being complaintive of impact of collateral damage effected by punishing this nightmare of an institution of so called higher learning. This is the sort of stupidity of selfishness from mankind that appalls me and sends me reeling in a dizzying spin that we have anything in common genetically. These are the VERY PEOPLE who would standby and watch these kids get raped and say nothing because of their "wins", because of their job, because of their careers, because of their records, because of something that ultimately means absolutely nothing...
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:21 PM
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I feel like the sanctions are about right, with the exception of vacating wins. But for the most part, I'm satisfied, at least as far as the NCAA's part in this is concerned.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I feel like the sanctions are about right, with the exception of vacating wins. But for the most part, I'm satisfied, at least as far as the NCAA's part in this is concerned.
Vacating the wins was entirely justified by my understanding.
These acts were only enabled to justified the football programs continued stature. It placed Football above public safety.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:05 PM
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Hi, guys,
Thanks for the discussion.

When I say: "I can understand both sides of the coin", allow me to clarify by saying that when I speak of understanding the students' position on this, (and perhaps I speak most naively ) I mean to say that I'm not sure how much they were aware of just what was going on.

In truth, something of this magnitude could not remain hidden forever, and some were likely to know. If that is the case, then indeed, I don't feel any empathy at all toward them (past or present). If the student body was even remotely involved in the cover ups...remaining silent for the name of the school...then I say to hell with 'em all.

But, if they did not know...well...I can also certainly see Saquist's point of view on this. Now they're acting and speaking selfishly. Oh, Gee, boo hoo...we have to lose all this clout. What will this do for our futures and careers in sports? What? Some kids were raped? Well, I'm sorry about that, but what about me?! What about MY future?! I'm a victim here too......boo hooooo.

Apparently, this is not the first time that Penn State has received hefty sanctions for misbehavior. If I read correctly, they had two years of sanctions levied against them for the selfish actions of Reggie Bush (appearently merchandising himself while in a student program).

But, the penalties leveled against them now, for criminal misconduct? Well...as has been said, hopefully it will send a strong message.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Vacating the wins was entirely justified by my understanding.
These acts were only enabled to justified the football programs continued stature. It placed Football above public safety.
Meh, it's an empty symbolic gesture. The team won those games, the players won those games. It's meant to take down Paterno's records, but I just don't see it as a good punishment. I'm OK with the overall sanction package, I think it was necessary. The NCAA had no choice, they had to hit them hard.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
Hi, guys,
Thanks for the discussion.

When I say: "I can understand both sides of the coin", allow me to clarify by saying that when I speak of understanding the students' position on this, (and perhaps I speak most naively ) I mean to say that I'm not sure how much they were aware of just what was going on.

In truth, something of this magnitude could not remain hidden forever, and some were likely to know. If that is the case, then indeed, I don't feel any empathy at all toward them (past or present). If the student body was even remotely involved in the cover ups...remaining silent for the name of the school...then I say to hell with 'em all.

But, if they did not know...well...I can also certainly see Saquist's point of view on this. Now they're acting and speaking selfishly. Oh, Gee, boo hoo...we have to lose all this clout. What will this do for our futures and careers in sports? What? Some kids were raped? Well, I'm sorry about that, but what about me?! What about MY future?! I'm a victim here too......boo hooooo.

Apparently, this is not the first time that Penn State has received hefty sanctions for misbehavior. If I read correctly, they had two years of sanctions levied against them for the selfish actions of Reggie Bush (appearently merchandising himself while in a student program).

But, the penalties leveled against them now, for criminal misconduct? Well...as has been said, hopefully it will send a strong message.
Bush was a the University of Southern California.
In comparison Penn state had a flawless ethical record till now.

That's what Paterno represented. That was the presitge of Penn State. Joe Pa always did what was right, He always was no frills, moral and ethical about the football program. No student athelette not passing would be allowed to play or passed just to get them on the field. How could he make such an outlandish mistake? Can we even call this a mistake. The more I learned the more woeful and willful the action especially across ten years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Meh, it's an empty symbolic gesture. The team won those games, the players won those games. It's meant to take down Paterno's records, but I just don't see it as a good punishment. I'm OK with the overall sanction package, I think it was necessary. The NCAA had no choice, they had to hit them hard.
There are many kinds of gestures. Hugs, pats on the backs, holding hand kisses and even tears.

Those victims are going to need ever-single-gesture in the book to find resolution in their lives and some of them never will. Some of them will struggle to define themselves separate from abuse and sense of abandoment.

If they need a hug-give it to them
If they need years of reflection-give it to them.
If they need a statue. Give it to them
If they need the monolith toppled-give it them.

Ultimately the cost has already been paid with their own childhood. It was taken against their will.

Further the NCAA wasn't targeting Joe Pa directly with the Sanctions. Those targeted Penn State University. It's their record that was sullied for the sake of preserving the programs glossy shiny image and it is perfectly logical to remove those wins that determined the University's High standing that occurred during the period of child abuse that occurred on campus and that was allowed by the Universities higher echelon, that was then swept under the rug. It's stupefying to have this much callous disregard for the well being of others. Institutions should be hit where they believe it matter when they put their own prominence as a priority. That goes for the Catholic church, JW's and For Universities like Penn state.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
I can understand both sides of the coin on this:
I can't. While institutional tolerance of these sexual crimes is undeniable (I still remember how a moderately inappropriately behaving teacher was just transferred from school to school when I was a kid) it doesn't justify collective punishment.
The second problem I have is the increasing amount of these humanitarian victimization games, i.e. you are only taken seriously if you are a victim. Take e.g. the students who now have less sports opportunities. If they wanna achieve anything they gotta play the victim card.
There are obviously ridiculous cases where the falsity of this victim came becomes clear, e.g. when a smoking or obese person blames companies who produce cigarettes or burgers for his predicament.
Furthermore this attitude is quite condescending to people who have actually suffered. They wanna be taken seriously and not eternally looked upon though a victim glass. I worked during my civil service year with handicapped folks and witnessed something similar: the mentally fit among these folks didn't like political correctness, they wanted to be made fun of, they wanted to be treated as equals.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:24 PM
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The NCAA had to act, they had no choice. Penn State is lucky their football program didn't get the death penalty.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:34 PM
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Over here we had a far worse case of sexual abuse of children with not just one but many teachers actively involved. Here the issue seems to have been passive tolerance of other teachers.
I am the first one to emphasize that structural problems are often more important than individual actions but I fail to see what good crushing this football program achieves. It seems more like the usual steamy activism which is often fueled, to use your point from the gun debate, by a hysterical media.

Perhaps I am a rare idiot but to me it seems as if sexual violence or violence in general is tolerated in many places. People look away everywhere and perhaps ironically partly precisely because of this victim logic. To use my example about the mildly inappropriately behaving teacher who was just transferred from school to school, nobody wanted to the right thing, i.e. crush him and end his career, because of this false sensitivity "oh, I do not wanna be responsible for his suffering, I do not wanna make him a victim".
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