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Old 11-16-2009, 10:31 AM
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Default Should they have replaced Kes with Seven?

First, let me just say I luved 'Scorpion' and found it entirely within Janeway's character to liberate a human drone from the Borg collective. Having said that, was it wise for the writers to have replaced Kes, an empath character modeled on Counselor Troi, with Seven, a ' Machine Becoming Human' character modeled on Data. For one, VOYAGER didn't need a character like this. It had the Doctor as the 'becoming human' character, and Tuvok as the logic driven computer/machine character. So what did it add to have another character with these same characteristics? Did it not just serve to remove potential stories from those VOYAGER characters and hand them over, instead to the Seven character? Yes, Seven allowed the writers to do more Borg oriented episodes, and give us a more personal look at them, but others will complain, as several threads already do, that VOYAGER ruined the Borg due to how familiar we got with them.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:36 AM
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In TNG everyone felt everyone was too comfortable with each other, all friendly and not really arguing. They added Ro Laren to 'throw a cat amongst the pigeons', someone to add a little more atmosphere to the crew interactions.

I think Seven was a similar idea, everyone respected Janeway and she always got the last word generally, Seven questioned her authority regularly and allowed the human side to Janeways character to come through on several occasions as she helped Seven regain her humanity. Kes did this to a certain extent but it was more Janeway teaching Kes little lessons about life rather than batting horns to get a point across.

Seven also replaced Kes with her interactions with the Doctor, a great pair in my opinion. Was nice to see how Kes taught the Doctor what it's like to be a person, then the Doctor did the same for Seven whilst enhancing his own character.

I can see your point in that Seven was similar to Tuvok and Data, and a more innocent viewpoint was lost with Kes leaving the series, but saying that she had very few good episodes in my opinion, maybe it was being so closely paired to Neelix, would have been interesting to see more of the Paris-Kes thing.

So, to answer your question, in my opinion, Seven was the right choice at the right time.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:12 PM
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I agree completely with Roysten. Though i think the interactions between Seven and Tuvok were also interesting as Tuvok was often flummoxed by human behaviour despite having been among humans for such a long time.

I think it was time for Kes to leave as there wasn't much further her character could go with the weird mental powers she had developed. Had they kept these reined in a little they could have gone further with the character, b ut only once she had ditched Neelix once and for all.

Seven butted horns regularly with Janeway which was necessary to move on Janeway's character. They could have done more with Seven's character. Again, she accepted her humanity a bit too quickly for my liking. It would have been good to keep her in her half drone outfit for a couple more weeks just to show the transition more.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:23 PM
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Yes!! They should have replaced Kes with Seven and I am glad they did. Kes was such a useless character. Seven of Nine was not only great eye candy (I won't pretend that was NOT a consideration while designing her "uniforms") but she was a great character. I loved how she said what was on her mind. She didn't really know how to tell little white lies in order to save someone's feelings. I liked that she butted heads with Janeway. I think that also helped the character of Janeway. It was a great move and I am glad it happened
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:56 AM
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Yes!! They should have replaced Kes with Seven and I am glad they did. Kes was such a useless character. Seven of Nine was not only great eye candy (I won't pretend that was NOT a consideration while designing her "uniforms") but she was a great character. I loved how she said what was on her mind. She didn't really know how to tell little white lies in order to save someone's feelings. I liked that she butted heads with Janeway. I think that also helped the character of Janeway. It was a great move and I am glad it happened
Although Seven's outfits were somewhat ridiculous, they somehow fit the character (I don't think for a minute that it was the intention when they pulled out yet another catsuit). She was totally unaware of her own sexuality and how gorgeous she really was. I have to say that her heels were not very practical but Janeway had reasonably high heels.too. Kate Mulgrew said it was because all the guys were really tall and she'd have looked stupid next to them in low heels.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:42 PM
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If they had not added Seven in place of Kes, the show probably would have been canceled (as has been said many times before).
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:40 PM
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Kes was getting too old too fast... literally.
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jla1987 View Post
If they had not added Seven in place of Kes, the show probably would have been canceled (as has been said many times before).
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I agree with your assessment. I think the Doctor also had too many blunt, direct-in-you-face-like episodes as well, especially after Kes' departure. Led to the stagnation of the series IMO.
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Would have been interesting to see what may have happened if Kes had stayed on rather than Seven, the show definitely needed something at that point though, and Seven did fit the bill.
Precisely, the show needed a change at that moment and it worked in some ways but also made it lame in a different way.

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Well, i guess you're right about the T&A male fantasy thing. But i agree with Horatio that she brought soul to the show. She was the most relateable of the cast. She had the sense of wonder and awe of a child, the eagerness to learn and contribute of the student, the heart and maturnal instinct of a young girl. Seven didn't have any of this, Ryan played Seven like a female Vulcan.
The Borg queen, Seven, T'Pol ... they really went for the cold sexiness or shall I even say dominatrix type.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:28 PM
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The Borg queen, Seven, T'Pol ... they really went for the cold sexiness or shall I even say dominatrix type.
Makes you wonder what Berman and Braga are into making such characters!
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:45 AM
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Makes you wonder what Berman and Braga are into making such characters!
Many men go for that, and B&B knew that, and thier target demographic.
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