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Old 06-29-2014, 02:34 AM
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kevin kevin is offline
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Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
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Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
I also get the impression that most people here didn't mind the way that Kirk died either (I'm making a lot of assumptions and interpretations here, please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Assumptions wise, that seems fair enough I think.

As much as I don't particularly praise Nicholas Meyer above others who've worked on Trek over the years one thing he once apparently said is something I do agree with and it's about the killing off of characters. When Spock was being killed off in TWOK a lot of people said that couldn't be done and Meyer apparently replied along the lines of 'Yes you can, you just have to do it in the right way'.

That I agree with.

So, Kirk dying (not withstanding I wouldn't even have had him in the movie anyway if it was me) is not a problem. On one hand, it should have prevented one fanwank side effect of my opinion he should have been left to sail on into the sunset because there would have been a section of fandom would have found some way to make him immortal in some sense and they would all have very 'plausible' ideas about how he could still be alive in the time of Picard even if we never saw him. Unfortunately, Shatner did that himself with 'The Return'.

But I agree with Sam that the death carries less of an impact than some other death's we've seen. Considering Kirk is the Big Kahuna in 'Trek' and his death should be one of the bigger moments to be managed and played to the audience. The choice he makes within the Nexus isn't an issue (although I'm not saying it's the most satisfactory either, but if we're working within the Nexus being in the film then the only thing I'd say dramatically is that I have no earthly idea why anyone in the audience would ever believe Kirk would choose the Nexus over getting back into action anyway, so it's not really a choice with any serious weight to it - he does exactly what I think we would expect the character to do anyway with little doubt of another outcome) nor is trying to play it low key and not blaze of glory type stuff, but when he does die, there's no real connection between him and Picard at the end. When Spock dies, you have the weight of their relationship history bearing down on the scene. It's not that I think Spock's actions were any more or less heroic than Kirk, but the whole construction of the scene and the execution of the death is frankly superior to 'Generations' in every single way. Picard and Kirk are both 'Captains of the Enterprise' and that's about it, as if perhaps that somehow alone was supposed to be enough to give the scene pathos.

So in short for me...........deciding to kill him not the problem. Just a little bit lacking in how it was executed.
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'

courtesy of Saquist

Last edited by kevin : 06-29-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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