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Old 09-10-2013, 12:41 PM
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kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,078

There's no such thing as too much Bruce Greenwood, that's certain.

The speech at the end I felt was akin to the frequent little coda's that a lot of episodes have where the characters sort of talk amongst themselves just to try and make sure that the main point isn't lost but while I think it could be considered a little blunt (I think that scene may also have been longer originally but on the Blu Ray there's no deleted scenes to verify that or not) but I think it does come out of what Kirk has experienced in the film.

I know deleted material exists somewhere that would have smoothed this out because in one of the trailers Pike has the line 'Starfleet isn't about revenge' to which Kirk replies 'Maybe it should be' which clearly ties into the ideas the film is trying to bring in and neither of those lines is in the finished film. This also helps to define Kirk as being caught between the philosophy of Pike (the equivalent Dove) and the actions of Marcus (the equivalent Hawk) which clearly would be at opposing ends of the Starfleet spectrum. In the end, Spock takes over the Pike role in the early stages but Kirk's own decision making comes to a head on Q'onos when faced with Harrison and has to decide what he's going to do. That's where he gets his understanding and the actual situational experience to make his speech at the end.

Their prior actions wouldn't need to be in harmony with that speech because the film is them learning (in theory, although it's more weighted to Kirk) why the words of the speech matter. Saying them with the understanding behind them of what it means. That's the intention I believe anyway, but like so often sometimes it can be said the execution doesn't always work smoothly. Speeches like Kirk's tend to be emotive by design and often can still support the ideas and/or ideals of a speech, but I'm not one for confusing well meaning speeches with reality. Which is why Picard's speech in FC doesn't really work for me. But that's just an example and not an intent for a tangent.

I don't view Marcus as 'evil' - he simply made a decision he felt was in the best interests of the Federation but since he's allied to Section 31 his reasoning process would likely take him down that path. Did Pike ever know about Section 31? We don't know and never will. But again, letting the genie out is fraught with danger and in the end Marcus' actions caused catastrophe on Earth (which I actually thought was more interesting than having the damage caused safely away from Earth).

Although I do agree it's unclear what the mood on Earth was like after Nero. The problem I think is that I don't think we've ever known exactly how much the general population of Earth was ever told about how close to various disasters they came, or how much of the truth. V'Ger? The Alien Probe? The various Borg attacks...............really what at the end of the day does Paul in Venice or Sandra in Prague know about these events or are they subject to restrictions on just what was going on? Are Augments widely known about on Earth? I think you could look at that aspect of it, but I think it would open up similar conversations about other Earth theatening events. We usually see aftermaths through the prism of Starfleet Officers and I think that was repeated in Darkness.
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'

courtesy of Saquist

Last edited by kevin : 09-10-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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