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Old 06-03-2013, 10:55 AM
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horatio horatio is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,282

OK, so your position is centrist, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Just because the corporate media plays this game ad infinitum does not mean that it is not wrong. You can take plenty of issues, from climate change to macroeconomic policies, to realize that one side constantly errs about facts.

Just to clarify my position, when I say that I am a lefty I do not mean authoritarian bullsh*t like Stalinism but social democracy with the emphasis being on democracy. Among all currently existing political models the vague world of Trek is closest to this.
But social democracy is not the same as liberalism. Being able to choose among twenty chemically virtually identical shampoos is not what I would call freedom and popular culture making me think about the Kardashians whenever I type Cardassians is hardly a sign of individuality.
And last but not least being a democrat doesn't imply that you cannot ignore the interests of a minority. On the contrary, you have to not merely ignore the interests of oligarchs to be a proper democrat, you have to crush them (meaning that you take away some of their political power and wealth, not that you physically hurt them).

About the Maquis, my spontaneous worldview is actually quite anarchic / libertarian so I totally understand these settlers. I even understand why they wanna secede from the UFP, their interests are not respected and interests hear mean not being raped and killed by Cardassians. I am quite sympathetic to most real world secessionist movements. But in a war and peace situation the Federation simply cannot allow some of its citizens to secede and lead a guerilla war against the Cardassians as they could easily interpret this as a proxy war against them.

I frankly admit that my positon comes from a land for peace / eminent domain angle, peace is far more important that some Federation citizens having to relocate. To turn around your argument about real men on the border and decadent Starfleet officers, I do not want Starfleet officers to die in an ongoing conflict with the Cardassians just to satisfy some Bohemians who do not wanna give up their lifestyle.
But this is an ex ante perspective, with the conflict going on the proper Federation policy would be to monitor the DMZ more tightly, prevent weapon smuggling and exerting political pressure upon the Cardassians. The colonists should do everything in their power to bring the Federation on the right path. But their prolonged use of violence is counterproductive, it just gives the Cardassians an excuse for an increase military presence and thus makes it easier for them to smuggle weapons into the DMZ.

So my main problem is not that these guys are violent, I advocate a limited period of violence to get the press into the DMZ. My problem is also not that they wanna secede and live their own way of life and I doubt that the Federation has a problem with members that wanna quit in ordinary times. My problem is that the Maquis do not have a strategy. They feel that they fight for a righteous cause but they do not think.
If you wanna be a fu*king revolutionary, secede from the Federation and kill everybody who stands in your path you might at least read your Lenin and follow his advice to "learn, learn, learn". And yes, this comparison is intentional, being a social democrat I always favour moderate over radical solutions.

Last edited by horatio : 06-03-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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