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Old 05-30-2013, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
We were given a very good reason for "why the torpedoes". They had been designed to be heavily shielded, stealth weapons. No one would be able to trace them, nor find out what was inside easily at all. Marcus worked it out because there were seventy-two cryo tubes that went missing and he knew of only one person who'd know of them and want to steal them.

His plan wasn't spelled out to us letter for letter, which is good because that means they were not assuming the audience was stupid.

Well, he was designing them for Marcus. Harrison was very clever and very strong, it seems, so it isn't a stretch to imagine that he put in a hard night's work after disabling the security. All he needed was for seventy two torpedo shells to be open, access to a transporter and knowledge of the location of the cryo tubes. But that's not the only way he could have done it.

He outsmarted them just like any main character can outsmart a building full of admirals.
The only reason Khan was doing anything for Admiral Marcus was because Admiral Marcus was using Khan's crew as a bargaining chip, correct? Are you trying to tell me Admiral Marcus didn't go to great lengths to keep those cryo tubes secure from Khan? Khan worked for approximately a year for Admiral Marcus. I have to assume it was because it took Khan that long to come up with a way to get his crew, otherwise why would he continue to work? If Khan had access to a transporter why beam his crew in to torpedoes and not anywhere else where he could revive them and go from there? It seems pretty obvious to me that moving 72 cryo tubes from one location to another would be detected fairly quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
I think it was pretty clear that he was supposed to have outsmarted them at this point.
If by "outsmarted" you mean escaped, ok. I think at that point Admiral Marcus figured out 72 cryo tubes weren't where they were supposed to be, so Khan's original plan had failed and he "had every reason to think" that his crew was dead. That is why he had already put his new plan in motion by sending Mickey (Rose's boyfriend) who works for Starfleet/Section 31 into the "archive" to blow it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
No, he said "I had every reason to think", not "assume". We are still not told why he had a reason to think that, but it is pretty clear at that point that he is being sincere. So Marcus presumably gave him a specific and convincing reason to think that they had been 'disposed of', so to speak.
Ok, I could have sworn Khan says at some point to Kirk "I assumed." Regardless I would have liked to have known why he "had every reason to think" as obviously the torpedoes with his crew in them still existed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
No, they had an arming system in place, but you remember that McCoy triggered it and all that happened was that it opened up. Carol Marcus tried a last ditch attempt to tear out the thingy that she was hoping to carefully compromise to disarm it. The fact that it didn't blow up was purely because it didn't have a warhead.

Scotty said he was worried about the "fuel". But you don't just need fuel for the propulsion, you need fuel for the warhead too. For any sort of reaction, you need fuel.

A photon torpedo has matter/antimatter fuel, that causes a sub-atomic reaction which converts the fuel to energy.

I gather that in a photon torpedo the matter/antimatter that is used for the warhead is also used for propulsion. Thus Scotty's assertion that he needs to know what kind of fuel it uses definitely refers to either/both the propulsion fuel or the explosive fuel.

The fact that he couldn't determine anything about what was inside the warhead prompted him to ask about "fuel" generally rather than the warhead material specifically.
This is a minor thing in comparison to the stuff above but Carol Marcus does say to Kirk in the shuttle scene that the warheads are active which is why she comes up with the plan to take one to the planetoid and figure things out there. If they weren't active how did they go off onboard the Vengeance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I think curing 'death' is frankly a bit of a melodramatic exaggeration at this point. It's debatable just how dead Kirk was (it's not like he was buried twenty years when they tried it. Medically, people can technically die and be revived even today so it's not exactly likely to be different in the 23rd Century.
I don't know. That tribble was pretty dead from the way McCoy described it. I know a tribble is a simpler life form than a humanoid but still. I honestly don't think the writers thought threw the implications of Khan's magic blood.
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