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Old 05-30-2013, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I don't think that's it. When Kirk confronts Marcus, he does so by revealing that he knows Khan's identity. Marcus demands that Kirk hand over Khan. Kirk didn't mention the torpedoes, and neither did Marcus in his demands. I don't think Marcus knows Kirk has all 72 of them. I think Khan outsmarted him.

I think Khan may have put his men in those torpedoes to hide them from Marcus.

I think I need to watch this again
No, they talk about the torpedoes as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaman View Post
How come Khan was allowed to wander around London without so much as tracking device planted somewhere inside his body so he could be easily located and beamed to a secure location at a moments notice. Was he not being watched at all? Section 31 must be lazy in this timeline.
I think it was pretty clear that he was supposed to have outsmarted them at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
I just got back from watching it a second time and Admiral Marcus definitely knows Khan's crew is in those torpedoes. He was trying to eliminate 73 birds with 72 stones.
Yes, thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
The warheads on those torpedoes were armed. I'm pretty sure it was the fuel/propulsion system that was unclear which is why Scotty wanted the specs.
No, they had an arming system in place, but you remember that McCoy triggered it and all that happened was that it opened up. Carol Marcus tried a last ditch attempt to tear out the thingy that she was hoping to carefully compromise to disarm it. The fact that it didn't blow up was purely because it didn't have a warhead.

Scotty said he was worried about the "fuel". But you don't just need fuel for the propulsion, you need fuel for the warhead too. For any sort of reaction, you need fuel.

A photon torpedo has matter/antimatter fuel, that causes a sub-atomic reaction which converts the fuel to energy.

I gather that in a photon torpedo the matter/antimatter that is used for the warhead is also used for propulsion. Thus Scotty's assertion that he needs to know what kind of fuel it uses definitely refers to either/both the propulsion fuel or the explosive fuel.

The fact that he couldn't determine anything about what was inside the warhead prompted him to ask about "fuel" generally rather than the warhead material specifically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
You're correct that Khan specifically says Admiral Marcus found out about him hiding his crew in the torpedoes and he specifically says to Kirk "I assumed Admiral Marcus killed my crew." Why did Khan make that assumption? That is a pretty big assumption to go on a murderous revenge spree with out any evidence to back it up. Shouldn't Khan have verified what happen to his crew first?
No, he said "I had every reason to think", not "assume". We are still not told why he had a reason to think that, but it is pretty clear at that point that he is being sincere. So Marcus presumably gave him a specific and convincing reason to think that they had been 'disposed of', so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
Now your left to make assumptions because the writers didn't really give us good reason for "why the torpedoes?"
We were given a very good reason for "why the torpedoes". They had been designed to be heavily shielded, stealth weapons. No one would be able to trace them, nor find out what was inside easily at all. Marcus worked it out because there were seventy-two cryo tubes that went missing and he knew of only one person who'd know of them and want to steal them.

His plan wasn't spelled out to us letter for letter, which is good because that means they were not assuming the audience was stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
It seems weird to me as well. How did Khan put all 72 of his crew in to those torpedoes? How did he even have access to them?
Well, he was designing them for Marcus. Harrison was very clever and very strong, it seems, so it isn't a stretch to imagine that he put in a hard night's work after disabling the security. All he needed was for seventy two torpedo shells to be open, access to a transporter and knowledge of the location of the cryo tubes. But that's not the only way he could have done it.

He outsmarted them just like any main character can outsmart a building full of admirals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
I agree, Section 31 and Admiral Marcus are starting to look pretty stupid.
That was kind of the point. They were needlessly desperate, with Marcus driving home his propaganda about the imminent war with the Klingons and whatnot.

Marcus was willing to risk everything for an advantage over the Klingons, and in doing so he unleashed one of the most dangerous criminals in history. Accidentally, of course, but once he had given Harrison a reason to think that his people (Marcus' insurance) were dead it was a no-brainer that Harrison would break free of any hold Marcus had on him and take his revenge. Being so clever and all he had probably worked out a revenge plan well before Marcus 'betrayed' him.
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