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Old 12-11-2012, 03:25 AM
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horatio horatio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiseb View Post
Okay there are a couple flaws here. Your assertion that Spock has abandoned logic or 'common sense' because he disagrees with the 'logic' or Kirk's argument is a reach carefully constructed for your own convenience. Kirk and McCoy are always invoking 'logic' against Spock; that doesn't mean their pathways of reason are necessarily more correct than his. If Kirk's argument is political, that doesn't automatically exclude Spock's counter-motivation from being so as well. It also doesn't follow that 'practical issues' don't matter to Spock because he disagrees with Kirk's logic; that too is a reach. And I don't see how you get from Spock's actual spoken words, which you've quoted, to him 'clearly saying' that he does not 'give a damn' about logic. He gives the humorously sarcastic/understated answer that he gives because he was just asked. It doesn't need to be whatever he (might have been) about to say before Kirk replied "I thought you'd like that."
If it is, as you claim, political or practical stuff Spock would have provided his argument like Kirk did. So why doesn't he give a rationale as he usually would and why his ironic distance? Precisely because he cannot say that he yearns to see the annihilation of the murderer of his mother and he also needs to distance himself ironically from what he has just said in order to still feel good about himself.

Quote:
I just got through making my "deny them their voice and shoot them like dogs" comment. Because it felt good in a gratuitous and rhetorical sort of way. Does that mean that's what I really believe? Can anyone say that's what I believe? When I don't even know myself? Am I required to be consistent? I expect when I die I still won't know what I really think about such issues as the capture and treatment of war criminals. Maybe I just don't even have an opinion on such things.
I frankly admit that I am not a total liberal, sometimes I am in a Jacobin mode and wouldn't mind purging violence. You mentioned the execution of bin Laden and while it was unlawful the little Jacobin in me does not have a problem with killing somebody who is obviously guilty without the involvement of a court.
But the liberal in me also know that since WWII the rules in our world are that you deal decently with POWs, put war criminals on trial and so on and that following international law isn't in general a bad idea.

Quote:
It doesn't become 'crystal clear' to me. Making a wry comment that is completely called for doesn't equate acting out one's desire for revenge. Nor does not suppressing your desire for revenge automatically equate acting out on it. And I have nothing but respect for a father or superior who has the wisdom (and trust) to recognize when the 'obvious' thing does not need to be said. Spock relieved himself of duty and confessed his feelings openly. That was enough to signal that "Okay, my son does not need his nose rubbed in it this time."
SPOCK: An anger I cannot control.
SAREK: I believe, as she would say, do not try to.


I would lose plenty of respect for my father if he told me something like that and all if he said it shortly after I nearly killed somebody while being enraged.
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