Originally Posted by horatio
Nice try but the greenhouse effect is simply a fact.
Climate change denial works analogous to Freud's story about the borrowed kettle (I gave you the kettle back undamaged, it was already broken when I got it from you, I never borrowed it in the first place.), i.e. mutually exclusive arguments are used:
There is no climate change, there is but it is all due to some funky solar flares, greenhouse gases do heat up the climate like on Venus ... but then again not really because of Mars.
I never said there was NO climate change, I just cannot believe that MAN has any major effect whatsoever, but the excuse that CO2, especially manmade, as the leading cause of temp increase is flawed. Unless we LITERALLY had everything on this planet that emitted manmade CO2 nonstop for a certain period, we'd hardly put out more than the planet itself would. Also, ever since the transition from the wording Global Warming to Climate change, it seems like the perfect way to blame someone a "denier" when in truth, those that ARE skeptical are the ones who truly are scientific. Those that say that AGW is a stated fact, and that is the status quo amongst the community of scientists are flawed as well. In science, you cannot simply state that its fact. when 30,000 scientists have stated that that "fact" is flawed and is unscientific. The issue with the whole AGW/Climate Change theories is that it's veered from being scientific, to being a political tool in over regulation. Here within the states, with the use of that unscientific, biased information, the EPA and Government are using Michael Mann's hockey stick chart as an excuse to put horrendous regulations against small things as LIGHTBULBS for goodness sake! I have stated manytimes on my political views, and I can remember having similar discussions on the matter of Climate Change here, but the main issue I ALWAYS have is that people are taking the Issue of Climate Change (which before the neutral name change, was always mentioned as global warming) and turning it into their own cultist and biased belief that its happening, its going to happen and we're doomed. Wasn't it stated as well that in 13 days or so, the Arctic would be ice free? I DID do a quick research into the melting ice, and from unbiassed sources HAVE confirmed that the ice record is just below the 2007 all time low, but in case it WASN"t seen, after the 2007 drop, in only a matter of 2 years, the ice returned above its previous high cover record before the 2007 low. As you can also see in these sea ice charts (http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference.../sea-ice-page/
) , the pattern has been steady as an EKG pattern since records have been taken, so in truth, if the melt show IS happening, it would be shown to happen during the spring and summer months. I theorize that within a year or 2, you will see the ice back in its normal, or even ABOVE normal size. Call me a Denialist or skeptic, but I prefer to keep scientific studies over political ones in this case.