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Old 06-16-2012, 01:25 PM
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Saquist Saquist is offline
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Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
I must agree with Kevin on this.
If we allow ourselves to be brought down in our entertainment because of supposed flaws in logic or reality, then we might as well not go see anything remotely ficticious, be it science, fantasy, criminal, or other.

That is why I am a strong proponent of "Logic and physics always give way to dramatic storytelling."

I was darn near moved to tears when George Kirk made his sacrifice so that his wife and son could escape death (something for which James T. would become notorious for....well...until he met Soran ).

If Captain Robau had not acted the way he did, then we would've been deprived of a truly great scene. Sure, Robau was likely a good captain, but we have no real vested interest in him, and in his short screen time, he hasn't given us much to be sympathetic for his quick demise....but, that death served a purpose in the story.
If Robau had stayed aboard the ship, the only way he would've been even remotely given any sympathetic nod would be for him to have remained aboard to pilot the ship to its fiery end when the auto-pilot went out. But, still, the ending of that scene would not have been near as compelling. He could've said a few lines that may have further endeared us to his character, maybe even said something to George that would've been legacy bearing, and something for George to pass on to little Jimmy T., but still, even his sacrifice just wouldn't have fully registered with us on any lasting level.

Meet Commander (now Captain) George Kirk. Command was thrust upon him by Robau in an act of desperation. Kirk did not desire least, not in this manner. You could see it in his face as Robau left the ship. (You could also see a look of regret, as if he was almost certain he was never going to see Robau again.) Already, that expression alone endears us to George Kirk. But, also, when we hear: "You're Captain, now, Mr. Kirk." something clicks in our minds. (OK...this guy is a Kirk....this must mean something good.) Name recognition, for good or ill, goes a LONG way.

We clearly see that Kirk loves his wife, and does his damnedest to get his wife, and soon to be born child off the ship. He was apparently even supposed to be able to get off duty (during what should've been peacetime) to be with his wife and newborn child at the time of the child's birth. Kirk does what a good captain does, and orders everyone off the bridge and to the escape pods. Seeing that he is indeed the last person moving for the turbolifts, Kirk turns around to activate the auto-pilot. The computer informs him that auto-pilot is off line. It is clear on his face that if he does NOT remain behind to manually pilot the ship in, no one will escape the wrathful barrage of torpedoes the Narada is unleashing. His wife and child, not to mention hundreds of others, wouldn't have a chance. So close! Dammit, so close to being able to be with his wife and child! So close to being able to share a common bond with his son, of a life and death experience that would be a part of their lives forever. However, he stays in constant contact with Wynona, his wife, to comfort her, and reassure her, at least long enough to ensure that she DOES get aboard the shuttle, and then ensure that the shuttle DOES take off, regardless that he is not there. Then, as the shuttle speeds away, and the Kelvin rockets toward fate with the Narada, we hear a baby crying, which jolts Kirk somewhat back to a more peaceful time. So endearing, and indeed so serving the purpose of dramatic storytelling is the brief little debate George and Wynona have over what to name their child. We see a tear form in George's eye as he desperately tells his wife that he loves her so much....he wants to tell her as many times as he can in those last seconds....and then, he is gone.

In the few short minutes, we come to know George Kirk really well. We don't want anything bad to happen to him. But he selflessly gives his life for his crew, and for his family, and we are moved by his sacrifice. It is a few minutes that is an emotional rollercoaster ride, which serves as a kickoff of the life of one James T. Kirk.

This is where dramatic storytelling serves its purpose. We are given characters to care about, even if it is for a brief time. Even if starship captains make the mostest stupidest (yes, I'm deliberately using bad English here) decisions in the history of the galaxies, it is our caring for these individuals (our nature as humans being) that allows us to enjoy this partiicular "what if" out of a list of what if's, and accept that what's done is done. Robau is gone. George Kirk is gone. Wynona and Jimmy T. live on. Life arises from tragedy and sacrifice. A new legend will be told. Even those who were not at all familiar with Trek were moved (some to tears) by these few minutes of establishment, because nobility resonates with humans being. And somehow, even the uninitiated know that this nobility will be borne along with James T. Kirk.
That is why dramatic storytelling works. It throws computerzed logic and physics out the window, and appeals to our human side...the side that tells us to enjoy what we have, and to relish what our fictional heroes may have, or regret what they have not, even as a result of some of the mostest stupidest decisions in the universe. Dramatic storytelling appeals to the human factor. We, as humans, are flawed. So who are we to judge the flaws of the ficticious?
It depends on the genre of film or medium Throwing out physics makes sense for fantasy but not with Trek..nor other things that are more common sense. If Robau had simply sacrificed him self as well as strike a blow to the enemy...Eureka...the same scene just more realistic...more convincing, more powerful.

ou have your young GEORGE KIRK INSPIRED by his Captain's bravado and courage and determines himself to do the same. A speech would have been great too.

"We know our enemy. They are Romulan. We've beat them before but not this time. Regs say blow the ship and sacrifice all hands for the Federation. We've got one chance. I'm declaring the ship lost. All hands abandon ship...Mr. Kirk we're going to give them hell. Take the CONN, cover the shuttles. I'll give you your chance."

Just a minor modification in the scene gives real power to the sacrifice of the Captain and George Kirk. The scene comes to life just because a smarter sacrifice was made. Now the scene is credible.

Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I can say that there are problems with 'Star Trek'. I can mean that about the Abrams film and I can say it about Star Trek as a whole.

You will not have everyone agree on what the problems are.

Recognising that there are problems is one thing. Having it reduce your enjoyment is another. Their validity or otherwise and that enjoyment are not directly related for most people. Talking about them is one thing. Putting them aside is much more individual. I suspect there are things you just won't allow yourself to set aside, whereas I can.
If the premise were not sci fiction...I could understand this.
If it were Avengers, Battleship, AVATAR, or MIB...sure...but if it's Star Trek, Dark Knight, Inception, Babylon 5, Aliens, passes. Too much tecnobable to much science...The premise has been established and I have to judge it based on that...and not how every other films Deus ex to resolve the plot.

It seems fair.
I know how you guys feel but I prefer to break the status quo on this one.

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