Sometimes I think we can be so consumed by these issues that it takes a life of it's own. But we're talking about sex. And we're talking about a pg-13 movie. The idea behind these is that commonly kids can watch it with out asking certain very difficult questions that really needs to be in the hands of the parent to address.
This is entertainment. Certain real life issues really needs to steer clear of entertainment. If view discretion becomes and issue...then trek has really mutated. I want my kids to watch trek with these sort of questions coming up. Give me the chance to decided when they exposed to this real life stuff. This isn't a slavery black/white issue, it's sex...and I think Star Trekk nemesis was creepy enough that I don't endorse kids watching it untill 15... But explaining what's going on to my daughter or son is not something I'll ever look highly upon when it shows up and I know it will.
The Crusher thing with the Trill was not as obvious.
But guys in most cultures don't kiss unless there is something more going on then friendship.
Originally Posted by Andrew86
No offense, Saquist, but you seem to be in awe of some pretty tired arguments and straw men....
For starters nobody has suggested that gay people lack free will any more than straight people. That little snarky sarcastic comment isn't anything to be wowed by because it isn't based in any kind of reality and therefore ads nothing to debate.
The truth is that no gay man or woman I have ever met has ever said the chose to be gay. Your response to that seems to be but on some hidden secret level they did chose it, but just don't know it! I don't know what definition of choice you are using, but that just sounds like post-modern (and I hope you'll excuse my vulgarity because I can think of no other word with quite the same meaning) 'wank' to me...
And if I were you, I wouldn't be so impressed by the "sure gays can marry... ...the opposite gender" argument. All it means is that gays cannot marry someone they fall in love with and share an intimate relationship with while straight people can. That's simple inequality.
Sorry Andrew...he made good points. It doesn't matter how many times you heard it. Will anything new really change your mind? I doubt it. Some people are just set in there ways.
I've never particularly cared for the steeling of social traditions. In this case marriage. I wondered...why do they want to be bonded by a tradition which finds this behavior perverse? It's envy. What else can it be? If Homosexuality is really becoming it's own culture then there own tradition will be necessary...
Why slaughter and denigrate someone elses traditions? Be bonded for life...why seek a churck why look for approval undergot and why behave as though the rights that women won for their freedom, should be suddenly be for men who've been doing the dominating for all of history?
Really Andrew I think he's made good...actually excellent points. This pretense of lack of free will really sounds convenient. Not making a choice is still a choice.
I think you shouldn't be troubled about my agreement with wal. Nor should you be surprised.
That's how opinions works. You think I'm 100% your and I think you're 200% wrong. The details are unimportant because we're resolved toward our own agenda.
You see I know you haven't really listened. (It's okay I really don't mind) I haven't deluded myself to think this was something you'd or others would understand. It was an expression. I've found it helpful not to leap and jump at everything I take issue with. Sometimes it means more not to say anything at all. So this hasn't been about which ones right which ones wrong. We can beat ourselves over the head with that log all day and some on the forum will and there will be no end...no resolution no mutal agreement....Oh yeah that's right...Star Trek is supposed to have those ideals....
I wonder where they are in the people of this thread?