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JBElliott 09-03-2009 11:51 AM

How did the movie show Kirk and Spock become friends?
The movie was billed as showing how the crew came to be on the Enterprise and that it did. It was also supposed to show how Kirk and Spock (and McCoy too) became friends.

Did it really show that? If so how?

kevin 09-03-2009 11:56 AM

This is interesting, because I don't feel the film showed that. However, what it did show was - in the case of Spock and Kirk, their journey to respecting one another as individuals and learning how to blend their particular abilities into an early relationship that will ultimately become the friendship they later had.

McCoy is also shown to play a part in this, but quite correctly, is always closer to Kirk than Spock. This was true of TOS, and so it will take a bit of time for that actual friendship to develop.

horatio 09-03-2009 11:57 AM

I also sometimes fall asleep in the theatre. It's no shame to admit it. :001_tongue:

But seriously, you can't have missed how Spock and Kirk slowly start to become friends, that's all the movie was about.
One could complain that McCoy did not get a lot of screentime and that he had only one scene with Spock, but he did not have much more in previous Trek movies either. I doubt that it was possible to squeeze a third friendship (Kirk-Spock and Kirk-Bones were covered) into one movie.

NCC-73515 09-03-2009 11:58 AM

Prime Spock told him about the friendship that will change his life "in ways you cannot yet realize".

JBElliott 09-03-2009 12:02 PM

Can anyone point to specific scenes or lines of dialog to support their opinions?

For instance, one interpretation could be that Spock began to respect Kirk during their argument about the Kobiashi Maru. But that could be just me reading into the scene my preconceptions based on prior knowledge of Star Trek.

Also the initial scene of Kirk and McCoy on the shuttle gives an impression that they share a bond. What that bond is isn't clear. But the movie jumps forward in time to a point when they are friends and doesn't really show how the become friends or show the basis of their friendship.

What in the movie shows, to the uninitiated, Kirk and Spock (and McCoy) becoming friends.

horatio 09-03-2009 12:06 PM

Either you are trolling or really slept in the theatre.

kevin 09-03-2009 12:09 PM

I personally don't think the Kobayashi Maru showed the beginning of the friendship, that was their first meeting where their different approaches started them off on the wrong foot. That animosity developed across the early stages of the film with Pike, when Kirk was made second in command.

It then reached a height with the bridge fight after Vulcan was lost (with a little help from Spock Prime). So we have the initial tension leading to the flare-up.

Then post-flare up, once Kirk is back and once Spock has worked through his emotions with Sarek, he returns to duty and he and Kirk must work together to board the Narada and save the day. This is where they begin to set aside their differences and use their respective talents in conjunction with each other.

Post flare-up they are now developing a trust and respect of each other. They are not friends in the TOS sense, but the development line is there.

martok2112 09-03-2009 12:55 PM

Spock Prime advised Kirk to start a defining friendship with young Spock.

Spock started to develop a respect for Kirk when he saw Kirk's "won't back down" determination to take on the Rommies, save Earth, and retrieve Pike. Kirk started respecting Spock when Spock had finally shown a little more flexibility than logic would've demanded, and his stricture to duty when Spock returned to the bridge to help them plan Kirk's attack.

Fascinated they got as far as they did, Spock shows even more respect for Kirk, and actually refers to him as "Jim" when he cites the odds for the success of their mission as they prepare to part ways....Kirk to find Pike, Spock to fly Spock Prime's ship. Spock is even more surprised by Kirk's blind confidence in him.

Seeing Kirk and Spock stand shoulder to shoulder as Nero continues to make hostile gestures despite his ship's impending fate. And when Kirk and Spock have a crossing of the minds, if you will. Kirk invokes logic to save Nero and his crew, and Spock shows that he prefers a little "illogic" in this case. Both seem to impress the other. When Nero finishes his posturing, Kirk and Spock casually walk back to their duty stations as Kirk orders Sulu to "fire everything they've got".

After they escape the shockwave, everyone's having a laugh of relief, and Kirk and Spock nod to each other in mutual acknowledgment that they both managed to pretty much pull off the impossible.

Spock Prime advised young Spock to start a defining friendship with Kirk, citing the things they could accomplish together as friends, as opposed to being adversaries. Why should Spock question his own logic, even if it came from his future self?

And when Spock reported to Captain Kirk for duty, and submitting his candidacy for "first officer", Kirk replies "It would be my honor, Commander."

You could see all this as the start of a great friendship that will define Kirk and Spock, and ultimately define Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

JBElliott 09-03-2009 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by horatio (Post 252850)
Either you are trolling or really slept in the theatre.

That's not a good argument, so I guess you're trolling.

Jim in St. Louis 09-03-2009 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by martok2112 (Post 252926)
Spock Prime advised Kirk to start a defining friendship with young Spock.

Spock started to........

In other words, like horatio said, the entire movie. For me however, a real turning point was with the line:

"spock, Spock, SPOCK!!!!! It will work".

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