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-   -   20th/21st Century History (Trek style) (http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9377)

jla1987 08-22-2009 05:33 PM

20th/21st Century History (Trek style)
 
If you have some time (if not, just skim through)... please read this: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...tory-earth.htm

I would like to hear some thoughts on the timeline of the Trek universe regarding Khan and the Eugenics Wars. I generally tend to think that the Eugenics Wars took place in the 1990's, but some do not. Anybody here think that the Eugenics Wars and WWIII were, somehow, the same war?

Captain Tom Coughlin 08-22-2009 11:15 PM

I'm not a big fan of "hard" dates in Star Trek. When the idea of the Eugenics wars was first presented in TOS it was meant to be something that was in the not to distant future. As Star Trek progressed, some of those dates don't really hold up anymore. The Eugenics wars and Khan and his people leaving Earth in his sleeper ship are a perfect example of this.

I know that in later projects like Voyager, they still referenced those events as taking place in the 90's, but I prefer to look at them the way they were presented in TOS, in the not so distant future. So to me, the Eugenics wars still haven't happened yet. After all, I think we would have noticed them. I just kind of gloss over the lines of dialogue that placed those events in the 90's. With the level of knowledge that we now have in genetic engineering, it's not to hard to picture Khan and his ilk being right around the corner.

My way of looking at it isn't for everyone, some like to try and fit it into the real world history.

Captain Tom Coughlin 08-22-2009 11:17 PM

I also look at the Eugenics wars and World War III as seperate wars.

horatio 08-22-2009 11:37 PM

I did not read the entire text, but I find it amusing how obsessive nitpicking leads to the idea that the Eugenics Wars and World War III are identical. :lol:
The rough picture is pretty simple IMO: Eugenics Wars happen in the 1990s, some space missions happen in the early 21th century, WWIII happens in the 2160s and after the events of FC, a bright new future begins.

There is a connection between the two wars which might lead to the confusion, Colonel Green used eugenics and killed the victims of radiation poisoning. If you add ENT's Klingon augments story and Terra Prime story plus the Khan story, you could claim that human eugenics had some pretty long-lasting effects upon Trek's fictional history.
Or you could roll it up from another perspective and claim that eugenics and xenopobia (see Terra Prime for the connection) are part of the nasty side of us which will not subside so quickly, hence the "long waves of eugenics" deep into the generally bright 23rd century.

Captain Tom Coughlin 08-22-2009 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horatio (Post 250301)
I did not read the entire text, but I find it amusing how obsessive nitpicking leads to the idea that the Eugenics Wars and World War III are identical.
It is pretty simple IMO: Eugenics Wars happen in the 1990s, some space missions happen in the early 21th century, WWIII happens in the 2160s and after the events of FC, a bright new future begins.

There is a connection between the two wars which might lead to the confusion, Colonel Green used eugenics and killed the victims of radiation poisoning. If you add ENT's Klingon augments story and Terra Prime story plus the Khan story, you could claim that human eugenics had some pretty long-lasting effects upon Trek's fictional history.
Or you could roll it up from another perspective and claim that eugenics and xenopobia (see Terra Prime for the connection) are part of the nasty side of us which will not subside so quickly, hence the "long waves of eugenics" deep into the generally bright 23rd century.

But don't you think we would have noticed the Eugenics wars?

Howlin' Wolf 08-22-2009 11:51 PM

You know back in the 80's the canon and non-canon seemed to work pretty well with each other. The books generally just filled the time between movies which did start to become a small problem with the II, III and IV trilogy but overall no big deal. Trying to sort it out now is like opening a big can of whoopass.

horatio 08-22-2009 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin (Post 250302)
But don't you think we would have noticed the Eugenics wars?

No, that Khan guy ruled somewhere in the Far East. No CNN reporters over there. :D
But seriously, as it is fictional history (which some folks like this Bernd Schneider guy take a little bit too literal ... the rough outline and the ideas behind the stories matter, not precise timetables) it does not matter whether it overlaps with real history or not.

Captain Tom Coughlin 08-22-2009 11:54 PM

That's why I choose to look at the "backstory" of history given to us in Star Trek without the hard dates. It's not really important to the story they were telling us if Khan left Earth in the 1990's or in 2050. Just like it's not important to the story if the Federation was founded in 2161, or 2200. What's important is the story.

horatio 08-23-2009 12:37 AM

I'd say that the order is relevant due to cause and effect, e.g. the Earth-Romulan War lead to the creation of the Federation or Khan came before and inspired Green.
But listing launch dates of space probes and ships is just pathetic as it has nada to to with the respective story.

Captain Tom Coughlin 08-23-2009 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horatio (Post 250322)
I'd say that the order is relevant due to cause and effect, e.g. the Earth-Romulan War lead to the creation of the Federation or Khan came before and inspired Green.
But listing launch dates of space probes and ships is just pathetic as it has nada to to with the respective story.

Oh absolutely, I think that the cause and effect thing in relation to the way that things unfold is important. Just not the specific dates. The way I like to look at it, Khan hasn't happened yet. Maybe that is right around the corner. To me it makes more sense in the big picture to look at it that way, rather than to try and put a round peg in a square hole and say these things happened in the 90's, and we didn't see them. If that pushes back some of the other dates so be it.

So all of the things that happened still happened in relation to each other, just maybe if Khan left Earth in the early 21st century, maybe the Romulan war happened closer to the end of the 22nd century. Everything just gets pushed back a bit, but the overall story is the same.


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