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Captain Tom Coughlin 12-14-2012 03:24 PM

Khan in the original timeline
Since I've vowed to stay off the threads about the new movie, I thought I would start a thread about an old movie :lol:

With all the Khan talk that we have had here over the past months awaiting new of details of "Darkness" I thought it would be interesting to speculate on Khan in the original timeline.

What would he have done, had he defeated Kirk? Let's say the Battle of the Mutara Nebula played out differently, and it was Khan who came out on top. After destroying Enterprise, what would his next move had been? What would he have done with Genesis?

starbase63 12-14-2012 03:27 PM

Shouldn't you start with "Space Seed" before going with TWOK?


Captain Tom Coughlin 12-14-2012 03:42 PM

Space seed makes his intentions more known, that had he maintained control of the ship he would have eventually either formed a new colony to rule, or take one by force. His intentions in Wrath of Khan had he succeeded in killing Kirk are less clear.

Genesis is also a game changer.

omegaman 12-14-2012 04:38 PM

I think he would have established a base somewhere first, repaired the reliant and stole some more ships. I think the threat of the Genesis device would have provided him with some degree of respect and temporary safety from the Federation until they could work out how to resolve it.

Captain Tom Coughlin 12-14-2012 04:52 PM

So, you believe they would have used it as a 23rd century equivalent of the nuclear deterrent , and mostly kept to themselves? Other than stealing the ships of course.

martok2112 12-14-2012 05:46 PM

I think Khan would've tried to build his fleet when and where he could, and would've set his sights higher on trying to impose his influence on the known areas of the galaxy. :)

This could've forced alliances between old enemies (Feds, Klings, Rommies) much sooner than anticipated to stop this resurgent threat.

Captain Tom Coughlin 12-14-2012 05:49 PM

I would imagine that his ambition would lead to him not being content to just go off and rule his own people somewhere. I think he would return to Earth at some point.

martok2112 12-14-2012 08:33 PM

Indeed....his thought being that at one time he ruled 1/4 of the Earth....he could set his sights on the galaxy. :)
But the thing he won't realize is that just as organized forces on Earth ousted him out of power, the organized forces of the three major powers in the Alpha Quadrant could once more depose him...with possibly more permanent results.

omegaman 12-14-2012 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin (Post 328059)
So, you believe they would have used it as a 23rd century equivalent of the nuclear deterrent , and mostly kept to themselves? Other than stealing the ships of course.

Sure until he had an army. He'd be smart enough to figure a way to use the Genesis tech to create more super humans, then it would be open slather on the Federation and everyone else.

kevin 12-14-2012 11:10 PM

Because TWOK never really needed to explain what he would have done with Genesis (assuming he entirely understood it anyway - he initially stole it merely as bait to get Kirk's attention and draw him in, then used it as a last ditch bomb) it's very hard to imagine where his mind would have gone given he was driven by revenge for most of the film and never had the chance to have that and then be able to say 'What am I going to do tomorrow?'.

Would he have quietly slipped off in Reliant?

He seemed happy to have had the chance to build a world before, he may have been content to find another planet to try on. But of course he once had immense power and once he had mined the ship's database of information about the world he was now in (and cleansed himself of vestigal things like 2D thinking) he may have thought about a bigger power play.

But he would have had a very hard time doing that because on paper his biggest asset is his biggest problem. Because he can't actually use Genesis IMO.

He can't use it as a deterrent because he only has the one. And to deter people you need to know what could happen to you if you don't comply. But the Genesis project was top secret and then buried by the Federation - so your wider Earth or anywhere else populace should know nothing about it. So, he would have to demonstrate it's power.

Except he only has the one. So if he uses it no more deterrent - he could bluff of course but those in Starfleet who would know of Genesis would know only one existed. He could try and figure out how to make another one (or a dirty version of one) but we don't know if that would be feasable without the likely generous funding of The Federation.

So Genesis might not be the answer for him.

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