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-   -   Would Kirk Still Have Survived? (http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11699)

Quark 05-12-2012 12:01 PM

Would Kirk Still Have Survived?
 
I just finished watching Star Trek Generations and came across this question. If Picard had let Soran release the launching clamps on his rocket and allow the rocket to yet again make contact with the Nexus, would Kirk have been swept with them into the Nexus as well? Would he still have been able to survive? Would it have been like what Spock did to Pike and allow him to live the rest of his days in an allusion? Or would he have died anyway but just in the Nexus?

Roysten 05-20-2012 02:09 PM

If he hadn't died by the time the Nexus reached Viridian III then both him and Picard would have been dragged back into the Nexus I reckon, and free to have another shot at 'making a difference'.

To me the bigger question is why didn't Picard not only go back to before they reached Amagosa so they could arrest Soren but also why wouldn't he save his brother and nephew? (I know I know... would render his character development irrelevant and make it a very short story.)

Captain Tom Coughlin 05-20-2012 02:18 PM

Very little in that movie really made much sense. The whole Nexus plot was pretty silly IMO.

omegaman 05-20-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin (Post 323624)
Very little in that movie really made much sense. The whole Nexus plot was pretty silly IMO.

Amen to that! Picard should have taken a Red Shirt with him. Simple!

kevin 05-21-2012 12:06 PM

Ah, the dangers of picking holes in Star Trek movie plots.................never wise!

Roysten 05-21-2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin (Post 323648)
Ah, the dangers of picking holes in Star Trek movie plots.................never wise!

Certainly could be a fulltime profession.

There is a difference though, the plot holes in Gen and a couple of the other films are actually detrimental to your enjoyment of the story, yet in most cases it's stuff that forgivable.

Captain Tom Coughlin 05-21-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roysten (Post 323651)
Certainly could be a fulltime profession.

There is a difference though, the plot holes in Gen and a couple of the other films are actually detrimental to your enjoyment of the story, yet in most cases it's stuff that forgivable.

I think some of the flaws in Generations come close to being fatal. For instance, the plot hinges on this plan to deactivate these stars, changing the course of the Nexus so that Soran can get to it from the planet. Why go through that trouble? Why not just fly a ship into it? That's how he got there the first time.

I know they "answer" this question in the film by pointing out that a ship would be destroyed by the Nexus. But the question then becomes, so what? The alternative is to stand on that planet, and it's going to be equally destroyed by the shockwave. So obviously this doesn't matter much, because once inside it doesn't matter what happens to the vehicle you used to get there.

kevin 05-21-2012 01:12 PM

Generations is definitely one for me where the 'common sense' style problems overtake the ability to 'forget' about them and just go with the flow.

horatio 05-21-2012 01:39 PM

This discussion is too mechanical for my taste and reminds me of the nitpicking of the Delta Vega scenes from the last movie. What is it about, what are the themes of this sequences, what does it mean for the characters, how could you describe it in two lines are more important questions for me than the "but why did Gandalf not ask the eagles to take Frodo to Mount Doom?" kind of plot mechanical questions.

The point of Delta Vega is to be a place where Spock and Kirk meet not coincidentally in a slightly surreal atmosphere (I guess the movie would have been better without the NimoySpock & Spock scene to maintain the ghostliness of NimoySpock)
The point of the Nexus is to compare the hedonist who yearns for eternal bliss with the heroes who yearn to do the right thing even if they have to sacrifice their private happiness or their very life.

Of course one can focus on the trees instead of the forest and nitpick Delta Vega or the Nexus or whatever to death but I fail to see the merit of that.

kevin 05-21-2012 01:44 PM

I don't think the scene has any special deeper theme or meaning than what we would expect from Kirk or even what has been seen when we see characters in other stories make such decisions. I'm aware of what you feel it has and that's fair enough however. So, while it's there it's nothing especially potent or radically new. Not as it's portrayed in Generations anyway.


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