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-   -   Star Trek VI: What could have been... (http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11542)

Steve Gennarelli 02-11-2012 07:19 PM

Star Trek VI: What could have been...
 
I remember during the spring or summer of '91 reading a blurb about upcoming movies in People Magazine.
For its little blurb about "Star Trek VI" it said Spock gets married and Kirk becomes a Monk.
Years later, I can only assume this was an inside joke to throw off those possible spoilers who wanted to reveal key plot points.
But on the other hand...
Imagine a "Star Trek VI" beginning with Captain Kirk far away from his Starship crew on a snowy mountain top wrapped in a cloak in an attempt to conceal his identity. Its been 10 years since the last mission of the Starship Enterprise.
His fellow brothers in faith whisper among themselves believing they are in the presence of the legendary Starship Captain.
Soon we see Spock preparing for his Matrimonial service on Earth of all places, surrounded by most of his crewmates from the Starship Enterprise.
Spock's wedding plans are disrupted by news that a war has erupted between Romulans and the Klingons and the Federation has sent the Enterprise to Organia in an attempt to meet with Klingon and Romulan Leaders.
When they arrive at Organia, a reunited Kirk, Spock and Bones look for the Elders they had met with 25 years earlier. None of the Organians are anywhere to be found, so this gives "the big 3" a chance to talk and to discuss their lives and their future. Spock reminds Jim that he can make a difference by getting back in the Captain's chair. Spock tells Kirk that he's found true love and happiness. McCoy raises his eybrow.
A distress signal comes in and a war breaks out in the skys above Organia. Kirk and crew return to the Enterprise where with the help of the Organians they somehow beam the captain's of both ships to the Enterprise. A truce is called and a new peace is in the air.
The film ends with a double wedding for Spock & Kirk. Kirk marrying Gillian from Star Trek IV. The last scene shows Kirk, Gillian, Spock, Mrs. Spock, McCoy and 2 red shirts beaming down to a strange new world and we can only imagine that the Human Adventure is just begining again.
Now tell me...isn't that a more rewarding send off than turning Star Trek VI into the Klingon story when we really cared more about our own heroes.

martok2112 02-11-2012 09:20 PM

That is an interesting story indeed, Steve.

But I, personally, am happy with the ST VI we got. Cannot speak for anyone else though. :)

kevin 02-11-2012 11:50 PM

I'm not big on TUC to a great level as a film anymore but I do like the final overall scene that is in the film just fine as it is, I have to say.

samwiseb 02-12-2012 01:37 AM

I'm a fan of TUC and its 'hell with it' attitude (which I even think was justified given the circumstances. Three years earlier it might not have been). And though it's more than a little plot-heavy for a series send-off, and filled with holes to boot, I think it does most of what it does just fine.

Roysten 02-12-2012 10:22 AM

An interesting idea Steve, Kirk as a monk and Spock getting married would certainly be interesting to see.

I personally thought TUC was great, it had a good atmosphere, was funny in places, all the cast got used well, good action and an entertaining story. Not my favourite Star Trek film but certainly a good one.

samwiseb 02-12-2012 12:55 PM

I can't picture Kirk as a monk at all. It doesn't even sound like a convincing PR smokescreen; if it was an inside joke I would suspect it was on the part of people magazine and not the studio or producers.

Captain Tom Coughlin 02-12-2012 12:58 PM

Yeah, I don't get that either. Why would Kirk be a monk?

horatio 02-12-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Gennarelli (Post 321355)
I remember during the spring or summer of '91 reading a blurb about upcoming movies in People Magazine.
For its little blurb about "Star Trek VI" it said Spock gets married and Kirk becomes a Monk.
Years later, I can only assume this was an inside joke to throw off those possible spoilers who wanted to reveal key plot points.
But on the other hand...
Imagine a "Star Trek VI" beginning with Captain Kirk far away from his Starship crew on a snowy mountain top wrapped in a cloak in an attempt to conceal his identity. Its been 10 years since the last mission of the Starship Enterprise.
His fellow brothers in faith whisper among themselves believing they are in the presence of the legendary Starship Captain.
Soon we see Spock preparing for his Matrimonial service on Earth of all places, surrounded by most of his crewmates from the Starship Enterprise.
Spock's wedding plans are disrupted by news that a war has erupted between Romulans and the Klingons and the Federation has sent the Enterprise to Organia in an attempt to meet with Klingon and Romulan Leaders.
When they arrive at Organia, a reunited Kirk, Spock and Bones look for the Elders they had met with 25 years earlier. None of the Organians are anywhere to be found, so this gives "the big 3" a chance to talk and to discuss their lives and their future. Spock reminds Jim that he can make a difference by getting back in the Captain's chair. Spock tells Kirk that he's found true love and happiness. McCoy raises his eybrow.
A distress signal comes in and a war breaks out in the skys above Organia. Kirk and crew return to the Enterprise where with the help of the Organians they somehow beam the captain's of both ships to the Enterprise. A truce is called and a new peace is in the air.
The film ends with a double wedding for Spock & Kirk. Kirk marrying Gillian from Star Trek IV. The last scene shows Kirk, Gillian, Spock, Mrs. Spock, McCoy and 2 red shirts beaming down to a strange new world and we can only imagine that the Human Adventure is just begining again.
Now tell me...isn't that a more rewarding send off than turning Star Trek VI into the Klingon story when we really cared more about our own heroes.

Wife and family vs. Starfleet made more sense than monk vs. captain. Furthermore I don't like the idea that Kirk could be happily married and continue his Starfleet adventures. The point of GEN (as well as TWOK and TSFS) that Picard and Kirk had to pay a price for their life in Starfleet, that you cannot do everything in your life, is more important than a happy ending in which all conflicts and trade-offs just disappear.
While I do not dislike your open end I consider the retirement story from TUC better. NEM did not feel like a proper ending to TNG precisely because it was open-ended whereas TUC had great goodbye atmosphere from the very beginning on.

martok2112 02-12-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horatio (Post 321372)
Wife and family vs. Starfleet made more sense than monk vs. captain. Furthermore I don't like the idea that Kirk could be happily married and continue his Starfleet adventures. The point of GEN (as well as TWOK and TSFS) that Picard and Kirk had to pay a price for their life in Starfleet, that you cannot do everything in your life, is more important than a happy ending in which all conflicts and trade-offs just disappear.
While I do not dislike your open end I consider the retirement story from TUC better. NEM did not feel like a proper ending to TNG precisely because it was open-ended whereas TUC had great goodbye atmosphere from the very beginning on.

I will agree. Nemesis was TOO open-ended for a "sendoff" movie. It was like: "If the movie fails, it's a sendoff...if it succeeds, it's an open check for the next movie."

samwiseb 02-12-2012 08:20 PM

I like open endings, and even prefer them in many cases. I equate them with ambiguous/somber endings. Perhaps I'm used to them because I used to watch a lot of TV anime, in which the more epic storylines often had less than tidy resolutions to their plots. And that seems to be the direction of primetime drama TV in general since the DVD age, if not before.

Thing is, you have to do it right. You can't usually get away with the open ending more than once. If you continue past that ending, the audience will expect a more literal/final ending next time.

TWOK is a perfect open ending for ST. I've always wanted to see an alternative continuation from that movie, with Saavik becoming a member of the crew in place of Spock... something Meyer might have even been willing to stick around and direct. But I don't think it was ever in the cards. Any possibility of making another movie quickly morphed into "oh sh**, how would we do it without Spock?", and I doubt any other ideas were ever considered. Still there's no reason ST couldn't have ended for good with TWOK. I don't think the classic characters ever evolved further thematically than they already had in that movie.

TSFS is a good exception to the rule of not using the open/ambiguous ending more than once. In this case you're breaking the basic rules of drama by resurrecting a character (I can't blame Meyer for opting out); no one would forgive you if after that you could still have everything perfectly reset. It's a more controversial ending to the series, and I don't think Bennet/Nimoy were ever in danger of not getting another film, but it's not like you 'need' to know the crew returned to Starfleet after recovering Spock. They made their choice to sacrifice their careers for each other; what if that was that?

TVH is your fairly conventional 'reset' ending, already used for TMP, and perfect for closing out the First Generation of ST in all of its self-contained episodic glory. I suspect the general public probably still feels it should have ended here for Shatner and company, and unfortunately I can 'kinda' see that. I also find it a little too convenient that Uhura, Scotty, Checkov and Sulu are willing to sabotage their careers just to return with Kirk to the Enterprise. But it's the right tone thematically, which is why I think it works best as an ending rather than as the start of a continuation. But too late for that.

TUC is very much a product of ST's Second Generation, when every new ST series suddenly needed to have its own 'definite' beginning and end. However it feels contrived in the same way that TVH does, being that Kirk's entire crew -or at least the core 'family', minus Sulu- apparently choose to put aside their careers again just to file their retirement for roughly the same date. Did Checkov really sabotage any chance of ever again serving as somebody's XO? I suppose he did. Who knows. As with Kirk's promotion in the new movie, you kind of just accept it for what it's doing thematically. But in real life ships get decommissioned, people get promoted or transferred, or they retire... it all happens so gradually that you don't even notice it until you're the person who's been here the longest. Which has happened to me a number of times (you can call me Ensign Picard, resident of the 'Tapestry' parallel universe).

Nemesis works fine for me as an ending just as TWOK does... or it would if it didn't feel so clunky, tired and derivative. But I think maybe I'm just not reading it the same way as most people. It couldn't be more clear to me that B4 is not Data, and I have serious difficulty imagining they could've continued painting Brent Spiner's face for another movie anyway. I could be giving Berman and the studio more credit than they deserve, but this time there is no evidence otherwise. I don't recall Nem ever not being the final film and any point in its not-so-eagerly-anticipated development.


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