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-   -   All the abuse and violence in the church (http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10644)

NCC-73515 03-31-2010 06:56 AM

All the abuse and violence in the church
 
What do you think? Why could they do it for so long and nobody stopped them?

Akula2ssn 03-31-2010 07:32 AM

Having attended Catholic school from the 6th grade onward through high school, I had to learn about the history of the Church. Quite frankly it doesn't surprise me. The Church has always had its own internal politics just as any government does. Just look at the Hundred Years War.

On the other hand, I wonder if the fact that this is the Church that we're talking about accounts for all the media attention though. I mean how much abuse and violence happens in the regular community in front of everyone's eyes and people don't do anything about it. Just a few months ago at I think a local bus or rail stations, there was a group of kids beating up a girl right there in front of everyone even the security guards and it was caught on the cameras too. Not even the security guards did anything. The reason, company policy for the guards. They can observe but cannot act. What's the saying? "No good deed goes unpunished."

horatio 03-31-2010 08:28 AM

Many cases seem to come from boarding schools or schools for handicapped children. In these situations teachers have more power over their students than usually, hence the greater likelihood for abuse (and the greater need for control, who watched the watchers).
I also think that church-specific factors like the good image of priests (OK, that is undone now) as well as celibacy have an influence but just a mild one.

So besides the obvious guilt of the abusers, who is responsible for the mess? Parents who didn't teach their children to be critical of any authority or parents who didn't care what happens to their children in the boarding school as well as the corps climate among the teachers in the school. The latter is not limited to schools, just take a look at police violence and the lack of willingness of the police to reveal the foul apples.

As kids nobody liked the fellow who told tales about someone else and as adults this means covering up the abusers among your colleagues.

Saquist 03-31-2010 08:57 AM

The Catholic church has been corrupt for quite sometime. Instead of applying justice to these offenders they've hidden it from authorities as well as the parents and guardians. They were complicit. It would be different if they reported every case but they hush it up and move the priest else where with absolutely no consequences.

kevin 03-31-2010 09:13 AM

The problem in the case of the Church is what appears to be the widespread and systematic protection afforded to the abusers at the expense of the children who were abused.

The Church is (in theory) supposed to support it's community - and yet repeatedly and over decades when they discovered these men were abusing children they actively did nothing to stop it.

That simply goes against all logic. Unless one factors in the greater desire to protect the image of the Church. The question of damaging the Church notwithstanding - and the damage now is far greater than if they had dealt with it at the time - who in their right mind once discovering abuse is taking place helps the abuser cover it up?

I think that's the most painful thing for people - the wrong people were helped.

NCC-73515 03-31-2010 03:10 PM

And thus, further crimes were made possible in the first... er, second place.

horatio 04-03-2010 01:42 PM

So what, abuse and violence happen everywhere. The nice family father next door might just beat up his wife and children and nobody stops him either.
This is no excuse for all the structural errors of the Catholic church but I strongly dislike is the typical media exaggeration, the Catholic bashing (of course the Catholiban deserved to be bashed) and artifical moral disgust. It has been common to beat children until the fifties and later and even today some parents do it and nobody stops these abusers either.

I wouldn't even have considered to send my children if I had any to any religious school, a boarding school or any private school in general without all these reports.
Just use your brain and stay away from hardcore religious folks, they are usually nuts. Stick with the more liberal religious people and you should be fine.

Saquist 04-03-2010 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin (Post 302232)
The Church is (in theory) supposed to support it's community - and yet repeatedly and over decades when they discovered these men were abusing children they actively did nothing to stop it.

That simply goes against all logic.

That deserves an amen.
It's a thoroughly corrupt organization. They have far too much blood (Too much?!" Religious organizations like them shouldn't have any blood on their hand.)
I cannot call them a peaceful organization now or in the past.
I just don't understand why 1. People still follow them. 2. Why they haven't cleaned it up.

I think there is an important lesson here.
Traditions are for the thoughtless...
There has to be a reason behind what you do and what you commemorate other wise it's meaningless.

TheTrekkie 04-04-2010 12:46 AM

It's the same problem with many religious organisation.
They misguide their people by equating their belief (God) with their organisation. Thus their memebers automatically do everything to protect their organisation.

However if you read the bible it must become quite clear that you can't find God in a building, an organisation or anything like that, but only inside yourself.

Unfortunatelly I haven't found any group, yet, who on the one hand rejects antiquated religious traditions (like having priests who stand above other believers) and on the other hand also negate their own importance as a group.
Often you only have the choice between strange religious traditions with a lot of hypocrisy and a huge power machine or non-denominational groups, who take themselves much too serious (probably because they have to separate themselves actively from the big churches to not become assimilated).

starwarsrcks 04-04-2010 04:53 AM

very good points but why would there be abuse and violence by people that are priests just don't understand why


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