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-   -   Should they have replaced Kes with Seven? (http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10074)

chator 11-16-2009 10:31 AM

Should they have replaced Kes with Seven?
 
First, let me just say I luved 'Scorpion' and found it entirely within Janeway's character to liberate a human drone from the Borg collective. Having said that, was it wise for the writers to have replaced Kes, an empath character modeled on Counselor Troi, with Seven, a ' Machine Becoming Human' character modeled on Data. For one, VOYAGER didn't need a character like this. It had the Doctor as the 'becoming human' character, and Tuvok as the logic driven computer/machine character. So what did it add to have another character with these same characteristics? Did it not just serve to remove potential stories from those VOYAGER characters and hand them over, instead to the Seven character? Yes, Seven allowed the writers to do more Borg oriented episodes, and give us a more personal look at them, but others will complain, as several threads already do, that VOYAGER ruined the Borg due to how familiar we got with them.

Roysten 11-16-2009 11:36 AM

In TNG everyone felt everyone was too comfortable with each other, all friendly and not really arguing. They added Ro Laren to 'throw a cat amongst the pigeons', someone to add a little more atmosphere to the crew interactions.

I think Seven was a similar idea, everyone respected Janeway and she always got the last word generally, Seven questioned her authority regularly and allowed the human side to Janeways character to come through on several occasions as she helped Seven regain her humanity. Kes did this to a certain extent but it was more Janeway teaching Kes little lessons about life rather than batting horns to get a point across.

Seven also replaced Kes with her interactions with the Doctor, a great pair in my opinion. Was nice to see how Kes taught the Doctor what it's like to be a person, then the Doctor did the same for Seven whilst enhancing his own character.

I can see your point in that Seven was similar to Tuvok and Data, and a more innocent viewpoint was lost with Kes leaving the series, but saying that she had very few good episodes in my opinion, maybe it was being so closely paired to Neelix, would have been interesting to see more of the Paris-Kes thing.

So, to answer your question, in my opinion, Seven was the right choice at the right time.

janeway72 11-16-2009 03:12 PM

I agree completely with Roysten. Though i think the interactions between Seven and Tuvok were also interesting as Tuvok was often flummoxed by human behaviour despite having been among humans for such a long time.

I think it was time for Kes to leave as there wasn't much further her character could go with the weird mental powers she had developed. Had they kept these reined in a little they could have gone further with the character, b ut only once she had ditched Neelix once and for all.

Seven butted horns regularly with Janeway which was necessary to move on Janeway's character. They could have done more with Seven's character. Again, she accepted her humanity a bit too quickly for my liking. It would have been good to keep her in her half drone outfit for a couple more weeks just to show the transition more.

MrQ1701 11-16-2009 04:23 PM

Yes!! They should have replaced Kes with Seven and I am glad they did. Kes was such a useless character. Seven of Nine was not only great eye candy (I won't pretend that was NOT a consideration while designing her "uniforms") but she was a great character. I loved how she said what was on her mind. She didn't really know how to tell little white lies in order to save someone's feelings. I liked that she butted heads with Janeway. I think that also helped the character of Janeway. It was a great move and I am glad it happened

jla1987 11-16-2009 06:42 PM

If they had not added Seven in place of Kes, the show probably would have been canceled (as has been said many times before).

JoeFromEarth 11-16-2009 07:40 PM

Kes was getting too old too fast... literally.

chator 11-16-2009 07:41 PM

I realize "adding" Seven was an attempt to revamp the show, and during her three seasons, Kes went from being Alien squeeze to Counselor Troi light to Nurse Chapel with a modern haircut and cute, colorful outfit. In other words, the writers didn't know what to do with her character. I personally think she was best as a Counselor Troi substitute. I was sorry to see her go. Even though i liked eye-candy Seven, i also liked cute, adorable Kes. In retrospect, i think Seven did add something to VOYAGER it lacked, a female foil and rival to Janeway. A kind of female Spock to Janeway's Kirk. Chakotay and Tuvok were totally ineffective as rivals to Janeway. Tuvok was more loyal than logical towards Janeway, i cann't remember a single instance where he used logic to challenge her. The Chakotay/Janeway friendship-light romance flirt ruined any potential of real opposition between them. He was mostly her enforcer, turning against his own Marquis. The one instance where he opposed her, in "Scorpion", was his best moment.

Captain Tom Coughlin 11-16-2009 08:55 PM

Seven was a far better character for me for many of the reason already stated by others on this thread. Her interactions with Janeway were some of the best on the show I thought.

janeway72 11-17-2009 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrQ1701 (Post 282088)
Yes!! They should have replaced Kes with Seven and I am glad they did. Kes was such a useless character. Seven of Nine was not only great eye candy (I won't pretend that was NOT a consideration while designing her "uniforms") but she was a great character. I loved how she said what was on her mind. She didn't really know how to tell little white lies in order to save someone's feelings. I liked that she butted heads with Janeway. I think that also helped the character of Janeway. It was a great move and I am glad it happened

Although Seven's outfits were somewhat ridiculous, they somehow fit the character (I don't think for a minute that it was the intention when they pulled out yet another catsuit). She was totally unaware of her own sexuality and how gorgeous she really was. I have to say that her heels were not very practical but Janeway had reasonably high heels.too. Kate Mulgrew said it was because all the guys were really tall and she'd have looked stupid next to them in low heels.

Zardoz 11-17-2009 02:15 AM

Again, as I've said before, KES was a good idea, poorly executed.


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